En: Hollow Earth

[Guest guest]

Dear List Members, December 21st

 

I am curious about a certain theme which is not so directly mentioned in

shastra, but to which there is some indirect reference. I am referring to the

hollow Earth idea and subterrainian existences. I realise that in some

contexts, the word subterrainian is used in the Puranas to indicate planetary

systems which are below the plane of Bhu Mandala, the Solar system.

 

But there are other statements which seem to suggest a hollow Earth existence.

For example, in the Bhagavat Purana, it is stated that at the end of the Kali

Yuga, the Kalki Avatar will be born in the city of Shamballa in the best of

brahmin families. Now, according to the descriptions of the end of the Kali

yuga, we can expect to find no cities which could support several brahmin

communities such that one would be the best, period!

 

But there are a couple of hints about all this. In Tibetan lore, Shamballa

exists in collective memory as a city of the interior of the Earth. ANd even

though the Bhagavatam makes no mention of this, I have heard tell that in other

Puranas, it is stated that at the end of the Kali Yuga, at the beginning of the

next cycle, men come up from the interior of the planet and re-populate and

re-start Vedic culture on the surface of the Earth. The Bhagavatam simply

states that the Kalki Avatar will be born in Shamballa and that He will carry

out his task of anniliating the miscreants. So could one of the learned list

members confirm to me if some other Purana, perhaps the Vishnu Purana, makes a

further statement about men comeing to the surface from the interior?

 

Also, in Ramayan, after Sita was captured, Laxman makes the comment to Ram that

he will persure the rascal " even if he hides away in the dark hollows of the

Earth." And when Ram shoots his arrow in order to prove his prowess to Sugriva,

the arrow pierces seven palm trees, a rock, and then penetrates to the interior

region of the Earth before surfacing and returning to the quiver. ( Talk about

guided missles! ) Could anybody elucidate on the Sanskrit terms used? English

is such a general language and the nature of translations are such (

traductori, traidori ) that I the meaning of interior regions, describing where

the arrow went, is not very specific. Could the words refer to a hollow portion

of the planet? Any Ramayan experts out there?

 

I humbly wait to be illuminated by the learned members of the group.

 

Thanks for the attention,

 

Dean De Lucia/Dharmapada dasa

[Guest guest]

Dear Sampath Kumar, December 24th

 

Thank you for your reply, sir, but it is hard for me to accept this

explanation. It seems rather round about to accept that the antipod of

India, North America and California, could be conceived of as a core. A core

and opposite pole are two different concepts. And explanation is not tenable

with the comments of Laxman, who mentioned persuing ravana to the " dark

hollows " in the interior of the Earth.

 

You mention that the Sagaras came to the shore of an ocean which they

travelled across until they came to the bowels of the planet. That is fine,

that gives me hollow Earth reference in the Puranas which I shall look up.

It had escaped my attention, thank you. But then you seem to speculate and

impose meanings on the idea of what these " bowels " are, confusing the word

bowel with maybe bottom. And then you impose another meaning such that India

becomes the top of the planet so that Claifornia can be the bottom, even

while definitions already exist in the Vedic literature placeing the top in

a Northerly direction as marked by the Pole Star. Do your homework, Sir! It

can be dangerous to impose meanings. The mayavadis also impose meanings.

 

There is scope for accepting that there can be a hollow region to this Earth

where civilisation exists- Vedic civilisation. Right next to you in Tibet

you have much lore about the city of Shamballa and the region known as

Agartha. Remember that the Bhagavatam mentions Shamballa as the birth place

of the Kalki Avatar. Tibetan Buddhist myth speaks of pilgrimages to

Shamballa through entrances in the mountains. Even though the Tibetans are

no longer followers of Vedic culture and are not members of a sampradaya, we

can still consider some things from their culture. It may be that

information about the hollow Earth has survived in the Tibetan collective

memory because the entrances, caves and tunnels are right there, while there

would be no such motive for retention of such information in other parts of

India due to no entrances being nearby. This can be so even though Vedic

culture remained in India but not in Tibet, not in any pure form.

 

One pitfall which we tend to fall into is conforming the conclusions of our

shastra to the structures of modern science. Modern science demands this or

else modern science will attack you. Not only that, but any new observed

phenomenon or proof which might come up also have to conform to

pre-established parameters, or else they will be discarded. This is a sad

state of affairs, but examples are not lacking. ( I think that university

professors don't like to see their theories collapse ). Modern science is

not perfect, and many of the amazing technologies which we see in the

Puranic descriptions are being experienced by us in modern times, for

example, flight and guided missles. So we should not discard a literal

interpretation of these Puranic statements about the Earth having a cavity.

Maybe it is in deference to modern, Western concepts that you have given

such an off-the-wall, imposed meaning.

 

In a recent article to VNN I related the testimony of a Norwegian fellow who

wandered in the North Polar areas with his father in 1829. They ended up in

warm lands and related a description of human beings which corresponds to

the Puranic descriptions from before the Kali Yuga. This fellow described

humans of 12 to 14 feet in height, with almost perfect memories, who used

tilak, and who spoke a language which later on seemed to him to be Sanskrit,

and whose religious system later on seemed to correspond to the Vedic. It is

amazing that he described all of these parallels even though the Puranic

literature had not been translated nor disseminated to the West by that

time, the early 1830s.

 

The Puranas tell us that the Kali Yuga was ushered in by the effects of

Kala, time. But this word Kala is used in the astrological literature

synonamously with the idea of " planetary movements." Could it be that on

the surface of the planet we are more susceptible to the effects of Kali

Yuga, being so exposed, while in the hollow Portion of the Earth, the

inhabitants are largely immune, being protected by the Earth's crust? Is

this why Olaf Jansen noticed a type of humanity which corresponded to

Puranic descriptions?

 

I will send a text copy of the article for the consideration of the list

members. I do not consider this theme to be off topic as it is a matter of

discovering and presenting the true, Puranic definitions, which is the duty

of a sampradaya.

 

The Puranas themselves were compiled at the beginning of the Kali Yuga for

surface dwellers, obviously. Could it be for this reason that the existence

of the hollow Earth was not emphasized? In a similar way, in Parashara Hora,

the Sage Parashara made a presentation of astrology which corresponded to

the man of the Kali Yuga- This is obvious from the section which deals with

the Ashtaka-varga system. So although the narrations are eternal, maybe any

mention of the hollow portion has been toned down so as not to discourage

the population.

 

Even if one demands empiric evidences, however, these secondary, scientific

pramanas are coming to the fore from various quarters. A very complete

presentation may be found at www.hollowplanets.com ; under the " Table of

Contents " heading, there are summaries from the perspective of physics,

gravity, geology, seismology, meteorology, plate techtonics and more.

 

Originally, I requested the scholars of this list to inform me about whether

or not any Puranas confirm this future history, that after the Kalki Avatar

anniliates the miscreants, humans from the interior of the Earth will come

to the surface and carry out the work of re-establishing dharma in the

dawning Satya Yuga. I ask this because the Bhagavatam does not seem to

confirm this- only that the Kalki Avatar will be born in Shamballa and that

He will anniliate the miscreants. I see nothing in he Bhagavatam about

humans coming up from the interior of the planets? Do other Puranas,

however, state this? Could I have an answer?

 

I thanks the list members for their indulgence and I hope to hear some

discussion on this topic.

 

Thank You,

 

Dean De Lucia/Dharmapada Dasa

-

sampath kumar <sampathkumar_2000

<bhakti

Friday, December 24, 1999 7:25 AM

Re: En: Hollow Earth

 

> --- dean wrote: December 21st

> > > I am curious about a certain theme which is not so

> > directly mentioned in shastra, but to which there is

> > some indirect reference. I am referring to the

> > hollow Earth idea and subterrainian existences. I

> > realise that in some contexts, the word

> > subterrainian is used in the Puranas to indicate

> > planetary systems which are below the plane of Bhu

> > Mandala, the Solar system.

> ------------------------------

>

> Good question,Sir, but one which has been asked

> several times before and answered variously!

>

> adiyEn once read one kind of answer to the above

> question and here it is for your information:

>

> "In pre-purAni-c" times there lived a race of people

> in the land now called India. They were called

> 'sagaras" and they were descendents of the Solar Race

> the same race from which King Dasaratha traced his

> Raghuvamsha ancestry.

>

> Once the Sagaras performed the Horse Sacrifice , the

> "aswamedha-yagnyam" where they let loose a horse and

> allowed it to roam around the land wherever it wanted

> and then after a set period of time had elapsed went

> after it to retrieve it. The lands and empires that

> they passed through while searching for the horse,

> they bring under their reign and protection.

>

> Unfortunately, the although the Sagaras travelled far

> and wide they could not locate their sacrificial

> horse.

>

> THe Sagaras suspected foul-play and a horse-thief.

>

> They travelled and travelled until they came to a

> great ocean. They travelled aross it to what they

> believed was into the bowels of "bhulOka"...

> "pATAla-lOka".

>

> The Sagaras at last found the horse in a forest near

> the hermitage of one 'Kapila Maharishi'. Mistaking him

> to be the horse-thief they began to man-handle the

> 'maharishi'.

>

> 'Maha-rishis' don't like to be man-handled and so

> Kapila became terribly incensed and with a mere glance

> of his eye reduced all the 60000 Sagaras to ashes.

>

> Many ages later Sage Bhagiratha performed great

> austerities and brought the River Ganges from the

> heavens to earth. With the waters of the sacred Ganges

> the Sage Bhagiratha brought the Sagaras, turned ashes,

> back to life. ANd thus prospered the race of the Solar

> Dyanasty, the Raghuvamsha, the precursors to the

> Ramayana.

>

> The story goes that America which is on the antipodes

> as far as India is concerned is to be taken to be

> "pATAla" i.e. the core of your "hollow earth".

> 'KapilAranya', the forest where they found Kapila's

> hermitage, is the present day "California". Also

> noteworthy is that near California there is both a

> "Horse Island" and an "Ash Island", is it not?

>

> So now you know why so many Indians emigrate from

> their home-country to their foster-home country...

> California in America!

>

> But if you happen to be a son-of-the-soil Californian

> yourself, you could of course claim to be a denizen of

> "pAtAla", the core of the "hollow earth". And you

> could possibly also claim common ancestry with the

> Raghuvamsha, Lord Rama's lineage! And you could also

> perhaps make a daily "pilgrimage" to Horse Island and

> Ash Island!

>

> Regards,

> dAsan,

> Sampathkumaran

>

>

> _______

>

> Get your free @ address at

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Dharmapada Dasa

I am not quiet sure what your question was, but i

thought i would share this with you, as a comment

about the Kalki Avathara... well As you know that Lord

will be born in that family, and i believe that family

still exists in India particularly in Uthar Pradesh !!

and it's also stated that the expectation of sin

levels must be wayyy too high !!! One of the examples

given in the puranas are as follows !!! for instance

there is a well know meat called Veal, which is

produced by boxing a calf while its alive and feeding

just milk for days and let it grow a while, and not

allowing the calf to walk, or do any sort of exercise

so, the flesh is still tender and then its gone to the

slaugther house !!! Well think about it, it sounds so

horrible and gross and sooo pittyfull to do that to a

calf... and that kind of sin is not enough for

kaliyuga.. actually it seems that sin will grow to an

extent that !! A mother and a father or a couple will

have a relationship to make babies, and once the

mother gives birth to the baby, she then will feed the

baby with her own milk, and as they both watch the

baby grow a year or two, and then when both parents

feel or want to taste their own baby's tender meat for

thier food... and kill thier baby to feed themselves

is when Kaliyuga avathara will begin !!! According to

the scriptures.. !!! Well i personally dont think its

hard to believe, coz as we see in the papper and in

news nowdays that teanagers give birth to thier babies

and dump them inthe garbage or just leave them inthe

bathrooms... or even wrap them and through them in the

trash cans !!! well things of that nature are

happening now... and years down the road we never know

whats going to happen !!!! Well imagine people in

Korea and china eat dogs and cats tooo feed

themselves.... well we dont know whats going to happen

in the future, but lets just pray and hope for the

best for a better tomarrow !!!!!

Take care and wish you all a very Holidays !!!!

 

Regards

Krishna

 

--- dean wrote:

>

>

> Dear List Members,

> December 21st

>

> I am curious about a certain theme which is not so

> directly mentioned in shastra, but to which there is

> some indirect reference. I am referring to the

> hollow Earth idea and subterrainian existences. I

> realise that in some contexts, the word

> subterrainian is used in the Puranas to indicate

> planetary systems which are below the plane of Bhu

> Mandala, the Solar system.

>

> But there are other statements which seem to suggest

> a hollow Earth existence. For example, in the

> Bhagavat Purana, it is stated that at the end of the

> Kali Yuga, the Kalki Avatar will be born in the city

> of Shamballa in the best of brahmin families. Now,

> according to the descriptions of the end of the Kali

> yuga, we can expect to find no cities which could

> support several brahmin communities such that one

> would be the best, period!

>

> But there are a couple of hints about all this. In

> Tibetan lore, Shamballa exists in collective memory

> as a city of the interior of the Earth. ANd even

> though the Bhagavatam makes no mention of this, I

> have heard tell that in other Puranas, it is stated

> that at the end of the Kali Yuga, at the beginning

> of the next cycle, men come up from the interior of

> the planet and re-populate and re-start Vedic

> culture on the surface of the Earth. The Bhagavatam

> simply states that the Kalki Avatar will be born in

> Shamballa and that He will carry out his task of

> anniliating the miscreants. So could one of the

> learned list members confirm to me if some other

> Purana, perhaps the Vishnu Purana, makes a further

> statement about men comeing to the surface from the

> interior?

>

> Also, in Ramayan, after Sita was captured, Laxman

> makes the comment to Ram that he will persure the

> rascal " even if he hides away in the dark hollows

> of the Earth." And when Ram shoots his arrow in

> order to prove his prowess to Sugriva, the arrow

> pierces seven palm trees, a rock, and then

> penetrates to the interior region of the Earth

> before surfacing and returning to the quiver. ( Talk

> about guided missles! ) Could anybody elucidate on

> the Sanskrit terms used? English is such a general

> language and the nature of translations are such (

> traductori, traidori ) that I the meaning of

> interior regions, describing where the arrow went,

> is not very specific. Could the words refer to a

> hollow portion of the planet? Any Ramayan experts

> out there?

>

> I humbly wait to be illuminated by the learned

> members of the group.

>

> Thanks for the attention,

>

> Dean De Lucia/Dharmapada dasa

>

 

 

 

Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.

Shopping:

[Guest guest]

--- dean wrote: December 21st

> > I am curious about a certain theme which is not so

> directly mentioned in shastra, but to which there is

> some indirect reference. I am referring to the

> hollow Earth idea and subterrainian existences. I

> realise that in some contexts, the word

> subterrainian is used in the Puranas to indicate

> planetary systems which are below the plane of Bhu

> Mandala, the Solar system.

------------------------------

 

Good question,Sir, but one which has been asked

several times before and answered variously!

 

adiyEn once read one kind of answer to the above

question and here it is for your information:

 

"In pre-purAni-c" times there lived a race of people

in the land now called India. They were called

'sagaras" and they were descendents of the Solar Race

the same race from which King Dasaratha traced his

Raghuvamsha ancestry.

 

Once the Sagaras performed the Horse Sacrifice , the

"aswamedha-yagnyam" where they let loose a horse and

allowed it to roam around the land wherever it wanted

and then after a set period of time had elapsed went

after it to retrieve it. The lands and empires that

they passed through while searching for the horse,

they bring under their reign and protection.

 

Unfortunately, the although the Sagaras travelled far

and wide they could not locate their sacrificial

horse.

 

THe Sagaras suspected foul-play and a horse-thief.

 

They travelled and travelled until they came to a

great ocean. They travelled aross it to what they

believed was into the bowels of "bhulOka"...

"pATAla-lOka".

 

The Sagaras at last found the horse in a forest near

the hermitage of one 'Kapila Maharishi'. Mistaking him

to be the horse-thief they began to man-handle the

'maharishi'.

 

'Maha-rishis' don't like to be man-handled and so

Kapila became terribly incensed and with a mere glance

of his eye reduced all the 60000 Sagaras to ashes.

 

Many ages later Sage Bhagiratha performed great

austerities and brought the River Ganges from the

heavens to earth. With the waters of the sacred Ganges

the Sage Bhagiratha brought the Sagaras, turned ashes,

back to life. ANd thus prospered the race of the Solar

Dyanasty, the Raghuvamsha, the precursors to the

Ramayana.

 

The story goes that America which is on the antipodes

as far as India is concerned is to be taken to be

"pATAla" i.e. the core of your "hollow earth".

'KapilAranya', the forest where they found Kapila's

hermitage, is the present day "California". Also

noteworthy is that near California there is both a

"Horse Island" and an "Ash Island", is it not?

 

So now you know why so many Indians emigrate from

their home-country to their foster-home country...

California in America!

 

But if you happen to be a son-of-the-soil Californian

yourself, you could of course claim to be a denizen of

"pAtAla", the core of the "hollow earth". And you

could possibly also claim common ancestry with the

Raghuvamsha, Lord Rama's lineage! And you could also

perhaps make a daily "pilgrimage" to Horse Island and

Ash Island!

 

Regards,

dAsan,

Sampathkumaran

 

 

_______

 

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