A question

[Guest guest]

Sri Sita Ramachandra Parabrahmane namah.

 

My humble namaskarams to all the bhagavata members of the forum.

 

I have a question regarding the all pervasiveness of Lord Vishnu.The

upanishads declare that Brahman(Narayana) is infinite(satyam jnanam

anantham brahma-Taittriya upanishad). And the objects of the world are

said to be real. So if brahman is infinite, is it not limited by the

objects of the world?(as it cannot occupy the volume or space occupied

by the objects). It is said that Vishnu is the greater than the greatest

(mahato mahiyan).But in the scriptures we see that during the pralaya

vishnu takes the prakriti in its very subtle form inside him and lets it

out during the creation. Also it is said that Lord Brahma was born from

the lotus flower emanating from the navel of Lord Vishnu.This implies

that the created world and Lord Brahma exists outside vishnu's

transcedental body. Does it not apparently contradict the all

pervasiveness of Vishnu and the fact that he is infinite?(because the

term 'infinite' implies that everything should exist within it and

nothing exists outside it.Also saying a thing infinite means it is not

conditioned by time,space or objects). But here we see that vishnu is

resting in space and space is greater than him(as it contains,Lord

vishnu, Lord Brahma and the material creation). I read one of Madhva's

work regarding the all- pervasiveness of Hari. There he explains by

saying that the space available is unlimited (as per the vedas) and

Vishnu contracts himself within the available space though he is

capable of extending himself beyond the space by his power. But it is

not very appealing to me as no scriptural evidences are given for this

point in that work. The advaitins explain this point by saying that the

Nirguna Brahman is the only reality and as it is infinite it cannot

accomodate the existence of many finite individual beings and a real

world both within itself and outside it.So they say that jivas and the

world are illusory.But this is totally contradicting the scriptures.

Would you please give the visishtadvaitic perspective of this point?Also

please explain me how the Lord is all pervading inspite of being a

person? Please forgive me if this question is atheistic and skeptical in

nature.

 

Trying to be an insignificant servant of the Bhagavatas,

L.Harikumar

[Guest guest]

--- L Kumar <lkumar wrote:

> Would you please give the visishtadvaitic

> perspective of this point?Also

> please explain me how the Lord is all pervading

> inspite of being a

> person? Please forgive me if this question is

> atheistic and skeptical in

> nature.

 

Sir,

Never fear to ask questions when you are eager to seek

knowledge about the "kalyana-gunas" of the ALmighty!

It is like fearing to ask questions about the

qualities of one' s parents. Will one ever be afraid

to learn more and more about the goodness and

greatness of one's parents from others? Certainly not!

 

 

The all pervasiveness of bhagawan, his transcendence,

immanence, His ability to inhere in his creations and

yet remain apart from them.... these are all questions

raised eternally by man since time immemorial. The

fact that one begins to think along these lines shows

that one is gradually awakening to one's spiritual

dimensions within!

 

Many gnyAni-s' have asked the questions you raise now,

Sir and many "gnyAni-s" have offered answers!

 

So don't worry! Rejoice! You are now in the good

company of "bhAgavatA-s"! Fire away your questions

boldly ("pari-prashnam")!

 

You can start looking for your anwers by searching the

bhakti-archives for a series of posts entitled "O

God!"" by Sriman Anbil Ramaswamy who has covered in a

very easily comprehensible way many aspects of

Godhead as per the VisistAdvaitic view. They are very

simple, interesting and informative.

Adiyen readily recommends the same to you for

starters.

 

dAsan,

Sampathkumaran

 

 

 

 

Talk to your friends online with Messenger.

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[Guest guest]

I attempt a response to your questions below:

 

<< Subj: A question

12/31/99 6:27:05 PM Pacific Standard Time

lkumar (L Kumar)

Sender: bhakti-errors

bhakti

 

L. Kumar: I have a question regarding the all pervasiveness of Lord

Vishnu.The

upanishads declare that Brahman(Narayana) is infinite(satyam jnanam

anantham brahma-Taittriya upanishad). And the objects of the world are

said to be real. So if brahman is infinite, is it not limited by the

objects of the world?(as it cannot occupy the volume or space occupied

by the objects).

VA: Sri Vishnu still remains infinite because he pervades all these objects

as their Antaratma, just as water pervades a wet sponge. The space occuppied

by objects cannot exclude Sriman Vishnu because he is not 'physical' in

nature, but is eternally all pervasive and Sukshma.

 

L. Kumar: It is said that Vishnu is the greater than the greatest

(mahato mahiyan).But in the scriptures we see that during the pralaya

vishnu takes the prakriti in its very subtle form inside him and lets it

out during the creation.

VA: During Mahapralaya, Prakriti resides in Sri Vishnu as salt resides in

ocean (in the analogy, water might be compared to Sri Vishnu and salt to

Mulaprakriti). When the process of creation commences, this Prakriti

agglomerates into a more sthoola (gross) form, as if the dissolved salt were

to precipitate out into lumps on its own. The Samkhya texts also state that

Prakriti is also all pervading (although Paramatman is more subtle that

MulaPrakrtit and is the Antaratman of the Mulaprakriti as well) because its

effect is seen everywhere ('sarvatra karyadarshanat'). In modern science, the

Universe has a size because of 'limits of observation', but this does not

preclude the presence of the Universe beyond these observable limits.

 

L. Kumar: Also it is said that Lord Brahma was born from

the lotus flower emanating from the navel of Lord Vishnu.This implies

that the created world and Lord Brahma exists outside vishnu's

transcedental body. Does it not apparently contradict the all

pervasiveness of Vishnu and the fact that he is infinite?(because the

term 'infinite' implies that everything should exist within it and

nothing exists outside it.

VA: The transcedental body of Mahavishnu is in addition to the other body

viz. the inanimate and the animate creation. This transcedental body of Sri

Vishnu is composed of Suddha Sattva and survives Mahapralaya as well.

According to Sri Vaishnavas, this transcedental body exists for the

convenience of easier contemplate of Bhaktas. After all, Narayana is full of

compassion for his devotees. See the relevant sections of

 

http://www.hinduweb.org/home/dharma_and_philosophy/vvh

 

The imagery of Brahma deva emerging from the navel etc. should be understood

as follows: When a child is born, it is attached to its mother by the

umbilical cord. This cord is attached to the child's navel. In this case, the

analogy is reversed. The Creator Brahmadeva emerges from Sri Vishnu's navel

(the lotus stem emerging from Sri Vishnu's navel representing the the

umbilical cored so to speak). Also, Mahadeva is said to emerge from the

forehead of Brahmaji. Now, the forehead is considered one of the most

'sacred' spots of the human body and so Mahadeva is also Holy. The idea of

the entire analogy is that the three are One and are manifestations of

Parabrahman alone (who is worshipped as Narayana by Sri Vaishnavas).

 

L. Kumar: Also saying a thing infinite means it is not

conditioned by time,space or objects). But here we see that vishnu is

resting in space and space is greater than him(as it contains,Lord

vishnu, Lord Brahma and the material creation).

VA: As above.

 

L. Kumar: I read one of Madhva's

work regarding the all- pervasiveness of Hari. There he explains by

saying that the space available is unlimited (as per the vedas) and

Vishnu contracts himself within the available space though he is

capable of extending himself beyond the space by his power. But it is

not very appealing to me as no scriptural evidences are given for this

point in that work.

VA: While I am not aware of Sri Madhvacharya's works, I know that Yatindra

quotes Dramidacharya and Vakyakara in the Vedarthasamgraha to support his

thesis of the transcedental body of Sriman Narayana.

 

L. Kumar: The advaitins explain this point by saying that the

Nirguna Brahman is the only reality and as it is infinite it cannot

accomodate the existence of many finite individual beings and a real

world both within itself and outside it.So they say that jivas and the

world are illusory.But this is totally contradicting the scriptures.

VA: The doctrine of Mayavada is unacceptable to the Brahmasutras themselves.

For instance: "Na svapadivat, vaidharymat cha" (Chapter ii, pada ii)

 

L. Kumar: Would you please give the visishtadvaitic perspective of this

point?Also

please explain me how the Lord is all pervading inspite of being a

person?

VA: It is possible for Lord to be a personal being in addition to being an

Impersonal, all pervading entity because he is much more than we can imagine,

and is the most exalted one. As the Brahmasutra says: "Adhikam tu...."

Gita 13.16 also says:" Avibhaktam ca bhuteshu vibhaktam iva cha sthitam"

i.e., 'Undivided in beings It abides, seeming divided."

 

May Mahavishnu shower his grace on us

 

Vishal