Guest guest Posted April 5, 2000 Report Share Posted April 5, 2000 Dear Shree Krishna Kalale, I would like to mention few points regarding the "ultimate similarity to Srimannarayana" which you have mentioned. The Vedic verse describes the Mukta Jeeva as "Paramam Saamyam Upethi". This is explained in Shree Bhashya by Raamaanuja when Swamy has commented on the Sutras "Jagat Viyaapaara Varjam.. ." and "Bhogha Maatra Saamya Lingaaccha". Meaning, the Jeeva has his dharma bhoota ijgnaanaa in full form and he realises his reality(Swaroopa) that he is ijgnaana-aananda-ANU and Sesha of Shreeman Naaraayanaa. His Moksham is consisting of four states: 1.Saaloka, 2.Saaroopiyam 3. Saameepyam & 4. Saayujyam. He Mukta reaches the eternal abode of Shreeman Naaraayana Paramaatman which is Shree Vaikunta Paramapada(Saaloka). He gets a divine body of Sudha Satva resembling Shree Hari(Saaroopiyam). He goes near to the Lord Hari and Shree who are seated on the divine Aadhi Sesha Simhaasana surounded by muktas and nitya soories(Saameepyam). He then eternally stays with him and serves his lotus feet(Saayujaym). Though the mukta's state is described like this, his ulitimate similarity to Lord Hari is to be understood by "Jagat Viyaapaara varjam.. ." meaning the mukta cannot involve himself in creation,sustaining and destroying of the universe which only the Lord can do. His swaroopa is always Anu & Sesha only well distinguised from the Lord Hari. "Bhoga Maatra Saamya Ligaanchaa" sutra clearly says that the ulitimate similarity is only in terms of the Aananda(Bliss) which is that of the Lord and not in terms of Swaroopa. Thanks & Regards M.S.HARI Raamaanuja Daasan. ================================================================== Krishna Kalale <kkalale1 wrote: Asmad gurubhyo namah, All that is needed is : Being closer to its original nature is more agreeable than a state far away from it. Note moksha is : defined as : sva svarupa avirbhava - ie. attainment of one's original state. The more faraway one is from his origina l state it will be more disagreeable and hence "duhka maya" or "state of sadness or incompleteness. Original state is complete expansion of dharmabhutajnana with no obstacles: and of course the ashtaguna avirbhava and niranjanah parama samya. ie. full expanse of 8 gunas and ultimate similarity to Srimannarayana. adiyen Krishna Kasturi Varadarajan [sMTP:kvaradar] Wednesday, April 05, 2000 6:19 PM kkalale1 Cc: 'Kasturi Varadarajan'; mani; mshari; 'Anand Karalapakkam' Re: `vision' of the self > Note anand : the the bliss of svarupa becomes evident during > atmasakshatkara due to the fact that powerful dharmabhutajnana is directed > to its svarupa. Now in the bound stage since the dharmabhutajana is > directed to matter or even mind we are mistaking that we are associated > with the ups and downs of the experiences. We are not realizing that we > are totally different from the experience. Once we know that we are > different from the experience and that we are jnata - ie. ashrayam to > jnanam. ie. locus of jnana then we know who really we are. Note that our > jivatma anukulatva does not swell or decrease since svarupa of jiva is > nirvikari. or changeless. Hence only changes occur to dharmabhuta jnana. > our jiva svarupa is unknown or less known in bound state. In state of > realization we know through dharmabhuta jnana who really we are and that we > are blissful. But what does it mean by the statement " I am bliss ful" . > all it means is " I" which is my jiva svarupam is the locus of the > dharmabhutajnanam which has the "the nature of my jivatma svarupa" as its > object and hence through that focussed beam of dharmabhutajnanam directed > towards this svarupam of mine, I am able to visualize that I am not matter > or sorrowful but I am different and immortal and blissful. My anubhavam > means I am just a locus my own dharmabhutajnana which has my true blissful > state as its object of preception. But my svarupam does not alter due to my > dharmabhutajnanam having different issues as its object. > Taking the cue from here, bliss is only something which the self can become aware of through d-b-j. So it seems necessary to postulate some agreeability conditions. Like: 1. The knowledge of greater bliss is more agreeable to the jiva than the knowledge of lesser bliss. Unless something like this is assumed why would moksha be more desirable than samsara? Is this how things work in visistadvaita? Assuming this is how they work I am stating more conditions: 2. Expanded d-b-j is more agreeable than contracted d-b-j. 3. Knowledge of Seshatva is more agreeable than the absence of this knowledge. One can go on listing more conditions. Is there one condition or a small set of conditons that captures them all? __________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 6, 2000 Report Share Posted April 6, 2000 Dear Sri Hari, thanks for the clarification. I just wrote that email in brief. You are right the similarity is "restricted" where jiva will never have : 1) jagat sristi palana samhara - function of rulership of the universe 2) sriyah patitivam (ie. being the consort of sri) In fact, it is stated in the terms " sriyah patitvam jagat adhipathyam vina...." thanks adiyen Krishna M.S.HARI (Madabhushi Sarangarajan Hari) [sMTP:mshari] Wednesday, April 05, 2000 11:22 PM kkalale1; nama-singapore (AT) eGroups (DOT) com; bhakti-list Re: [RE: `vision' of the self] Dear Shree Krishna Kalale, I would like to mention few points regarding the "ultimate similarity to Srimannarayana" which you have mentioned. The Vedic verse describes the Mukta Jeeva as "Paramam Saamyam Upethi". This is explained in Shree Bhashya by Raamaanuja when Swamy has commented on the Sutras "Jagat Viyaapaara Varjam.. ." and "Bhogha Maatra Saamya Lingaaccha". Meaning, the Jeeva has his dharma bhoota ijgnaanaa in full form and he realises his reality(Swaroopa) that he is ijgnaana-aananda-ANU and Sesha of Shreeman Naaraayanaa. His Moksham is consisting of four states: 1.Saaloka, 2.Saaroopiyam 3. Saameepyam & 4. Saayujyam. He Mukta reaches the eternal abode of Shreeman Naaraayana Paramaatman which is Shree Vaikunta Paramapada(Saaloka). He gets a divine body of Sudha Satva resembling Shree Hari(Saaroopiyam). He goes near to the Lord Hari and Shree who are seated on the divine Aadhi Sesha Simhaasana surounded by muktas and nitya soories(Saameepyam). He then eternally stays with him and serves his lotus feet(Saayujaym). Though the mukta's state is described like this, his ulitimate similarity to Lord Hari is to be understood by "Jagat Viyaapaara varjam.. ." meaning the mukta cannot involve himself in creation,sustaining and destroying of the universe which only the Lord can do. His swaroopa is always Anu & Sesha only well distinguised from the Lord Hari. "Bhoga Maatra Saamya Ligaanchaa" sutra clearly says that the ulitimate similarity is only in terms of the Aananda(Bliss) which is that of the Lord and not in terms of Swaroopa. Thanks & Regards M.S.HARI Raamaanuja Daasan. ================================================================== Krishna Kalale <kkalale1 wrote: Asmad gurubhyo namah, All that is needed is : Being closer to its original nature is more agreeable than a state far away from it. Note moksha is : defined as : sva svarupa avirbhava - ie. attainment of one's original state. The more faraway one is from his origina l state it will be more disagreeable and hence "duhka maya" or "state of sadness or incompleteness. Original state is complete expansion of dharmabhutajnana with no obstacles: and of course the ashtaguna avirbhava and niranjanah parama samya. ie. full expanse of 8 gunas and ultimate similarity to Srimannarayana. adiyen Krishna Kasturi Varadarajan [sMTP:kvaradar] Wednesday, April 05, 2000 6:19 PM kkalale1 Cc: 'Kasturi Varadarajan'; mani; mshari; 'Anand Karalapakkam' Re: `vision' of the self > Note anand : the the bliss of svarupa becomes evident during > atmasakshatkara due to the fact that powerful dharmabhutajnana is directed > to its svarupa. Now in the bound stage since the dharmabhutajana is > directed to matter or even mind we are mistaking that we are associated > with the ups and downs of the experiences. We are not realizing that we > are totally different from the experience. Once we know that we are > different from the experience and that we are jnata - ie. ashrayam to > jnanam. ie. locus of jnana then we know who really we are. Note that our > jivatma anukulatva does not swell or decrease since svarupa of jiva is > nirvikari. or changeless. Hence only changes occur to dharmabhuta jnana. > our jiva svarupa is unknown or less known in bound state. In state of > realization we know through dharmabhuta jnana who really we are and that we > are blissful. But what does it mean by the statement " I am bliss ful" . > all it means is " I" which is my jiva svarupam is the locus of the > dharmabhutajnanam which has the "the nature of my jivatma svarupa" as its > object and hence through that focussed beam of dharmabhutajnanam directed > towards this svarupam of mine, I am able to visualize that I am not matter > or sorrowful but I am different and immortal and blissful. My anubhavam > means I am just a locus my own dharmabhutajnana which has my true blissful > state as its object of preception. But my svarupam does not alter due to my > dharmabhutajnanam having different issues as its object. > Taking the cue from here, bliss is only something which the self can become aware of through d-b-j. So it seems necessary to postulate some agreeability conditions. Like: 1. The knowledge of greater bliss is more agreeable to the jiva than the knowledge of lesser bliss. Unless something like this is assumed why would moksha be more desirable than samsara? Is this how things work in visistadvaita? Assuming this is how they work I am stating more conditions: 2. Expanded d-b-j is more agreeable than contracted d-b-j. 3. Knowledge of Seshatva is more agreeable than the absence of this knowledge. One can go on listing more conditions. Is there one condition or a small set of conditons that captures them all? __________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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