Re Dream and Waking States

[Guest guest]

Dear BhAgavatOttamas

 

Re Sri Chandrasekaran's query and the ongoing discussion

about the dream objects aDiyEn would like to say a few

words.Basically any Vaidika,i.e., believer in what the

Vedas say,believes in the Karma Theory,which says merely

that everything that happens to a Jiva whether in the

waking or dream state is his karma-phala.And the person

who gives that phala is the Lord Himself (<Phalamata

upapattEh> says the VedAnta SUtra).Just as He creates for

the Jiva in the Waking state experiences good and bad

according to his karma,so does He in the Dream state-

- <sa hi kartA> says Brih.Up.in this context.If one could

believe,like most of humanity does,that the Lord created

the Universe and all that there in,it may not be straining

one's credulity too much to believe that He also created

the extremely short-lived dream objects as well.These are

the phalas for Karmas which are too small to require a

longer experience in the waking state.They have a specific

life-span, and a specific experiencer.But the experience

during that time span is as valid as during a longer span

in the waking state.Sri BhAshyakArar says in a pithy

sentence,"a person may say that those dream objects are no longer

there now, butno one says that he did not see them

at all." The dream objects are not "real" in the Waking

State,but the dream itself continues to be real.After you

come out of the cinema hall can you deny that you've seen

that film or that you laughed or cried at that time?

 

This is said by Sri BhAshyakArar in this condensed form:

<Atah jIvAnAm alpAlpa-karmAnuguNa-phalAnubhavArtham tAvan-

mAtra-kAlAvasAnAn tadEkAnubhAvyAn arthAn utpAdayati>

 

Following the VEdAntasUtras he also clarifies that dreams

are a medium for various purposes like memories or indications

of future events apart from the purpose mentioned above.

All the experiences of the Jiva while in the body is through

his DharmabhUta GnAna; so whether it is in the Waking or

Dream state the validity of the experience is the same.

 

 

With this background let us consider the example posed by

Sri Chandrasekharan-

 

----

A person is presently dreaming of his house being on fire. He is still

in the dream state. Rest of his family is awake, say. They all are

living in that

same house while only that person is seeing burning house. At this

moment when

two different persons are experiencing the same object (the house),

which one will

we choose to describe as real? The burning house that the dreamer is

imagining or the intact one the person awake is living in. It would be

contradicting to say

both are real since the same object can't be in two different conditions

at the

same time.

One might say burning house is real in the dream-plane and intact

house is real

in the waking-plane of consciousness. But I tend to feel that when we

describe

an object thus as real or unreal, we should do so only with respect to a

common

plane of objects. Otherwise, I think we don't need a word "unreal" in

our

language. Seriously after reading these posts, I have a question

"what then is unreal in this world". Please clarify.

-----

the simple answer to this question is that the "burning house"

is the dream object created by the Lord for a fixed period for

the specific experience of the dreamer.The other family members

are not seeing it because each person's Karma is different.Sometimes

they coincide at a point,like when a group of people are killed

in a disaster,otherwise they don't.

 

ADiyEn would close this by giving a very interesting event which

took place more than 40 years ago,and which is like a text-book

illustration for the above point:

 

One stormy night a country bus was moving in interior Tamil

Nadu.The bus was totally crowded and people were hanging on

to the straps.Outside there was terrible thunder and rain.

About midnight one of the passengers began laughing and

when the surprised neighbours asked him for the reason

he said,"I'm going to to prove how false astrology is.

I've been told that I'm likely to die in an accident at

midnight tonight.Now there are nearly hundred people here.

are you going to tell me that all of us have the same

horoscope? Because If there's going to be an accident now

all of you are going with me too!" The passengers noted

that hardly a few minutes were left for midnight,and

immediately there was panic in the bus.Suddenly the

man's neighbours caught hold of him and pushed him

out of the running bus.The startled driver immediately

applied the brakes.A second later a huge tree broke in

the wind and crashed right in front of the stationary

bus.

 

Sri EmberumAnAr TiruvaDigaLE SaraNam!

aDiyEn

BHARAT