Karnataka Iyengars

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavathas,

 

I'm an undergraduate student in California (born and raised in the U.S), and I

am from a community known as the Hebbar Iyengars. As many of you may know,

Hebbar Iyengars are a community of SriVaishnavas distributed throughout various

parts of Karnataka. I have always asked my family what our origins were, and

the answer I seem to get from everybody, including some very elderly relatives

in India, is simply that "we don't know."

 

No one seems to be quite sure whether the Hebbar Iyengars migrated from Tamil

Nadu some hundreds of years ago, or whether they were a previous community in

Karnataka who joined the Sri Vaishnava fold during Ramanuja's hiatus at

Melukote. Hebbar Iyengars are a distinct community, with marriage outside the

community, even with other Karnataka Iyengars (e.g Mandyam, etc) being a very

recent phenomenon.

 

Hebbar Iyengars speak a very distinct dialect of Tamil that most Tamil speakers

say sounds like Kannada, and most Kannada speakers say sounds like Tamil. It

clearly borrows very heavily from Kannada in terms of vocabulary, but I find it

amazing that the community has preserved its unique language till this day,

which is neither Tamil nor Kannada in a pure sense.

 

What is frustrating to me is that no one really seems to have an exact idea of

the history of these Hebbar SriVaishnavas. I'm posting this message to ask if

any one is aware of this history, and perhaps to start a general dialogue about

the Sri Vaishnavas of Karnataka. Please anyone respond to share your thoughts,

ideas.

 

Namo Ramanujaya Namah

 

Ranganath

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ranganath Sudarshan wrote:

> What is frustrating to me is that no one really seems to have an exact idea of

the history of these Hebbar SriVaishnavas. I'm posting this message to ask if

any one is aware of this history, and perhaps to start a general dialogue about

the Sri Vaishnavas of Karnataka. Please anyone respond to share your thoughts,

ideas.

>

 

Dear Sri. Ranganath:

 

This is what I've heard from relatives and other Srivaishnavas, and

standard disclaimers apply as is normal for all hearsay information.

Any of this is open to correction.

 

(a) "Mandya" and "Hebbar" refer to actual places in the Mysore country,

(b) Mandya Srivaishnavas are predominantly from Then sampradAyam,

© Hebbar Srivaishnavas may belong to either kalai,

(d) Several Mandya Srivaishavas were originally Jains under King Bittideva,

(e) Based upon the time of migration from Tamil country to Mysore, the

Srivaishnavas in Karnataka are called either "mElnAttu" or "kIzhnAttu";

i.e. earlier or later - respectively,

(f) Hebbar Srivaishnavas are generally considered mElnattu (which seems to

suggest that they were migrants unlike most Mandya Srivaishnavas).

(g) Mandya Srivaishnavas were mostly local Jains/other sects that who

embraced Ramanuja SampradAyam during Ramanujar's 20-some years spent

in Mysore country (and perhaps even later).

 

As a matter of fact, I too am interested in some information about the

"keezhnaattu" people, since my parents claim to belong to that "category".

Going by their logic, "keezhnaattu" would mean any migration during the

last 100 years or so (since prior to that my parents' ancestors were

from hOsUr and kOmanDUr respectively).

 

Regards

-Srinath Chakravarty

email: xsrinath

[Guest guest]

Srimathe Malola Narasimhaya Namaha

 

Dear Sriman Ranganath Sudarshan :

 

Sriman Srinath Chakravarthy wrote :

>(g) Mandya Srivaishnavas were mostly local Jains/other sects that who

embraced Ramanuja SampradAyam during Ramanujar's 20-some years spent

in Mysore country (and perhaps even later).

 

I have given below a detailed description of the above fact. For more details

about Mandya Sri Vasihnavas please refer to the book :

 

1.. " Melukote Through the Ages " by Prof. M.A. Lakshmithathachar - Academy of

Sanskrit Research, Melukote

Sriman R.Padmanabhan, author of " Bhagavan Ramanuja " - LIFCO Books had written

:

 

Ramanuja And Vishnuvardhana

 

The Hoysalas ( During the time of Ramanuja - they were rulers of the present

Karnataka State ) in whose country Ramanuja and his disciples had taken refuge,

had their ( Hoysalas ) home in a hill towards the west of Mysore. The kings and

in fact the royalty were all Jains allied with the Chalukyas and therefore were

against the Cholas. Ramanuja and his disciples had migrated from Srirangam due

to the vehement attitude of Saivite Cholas to Sri Vaishnavas.

 

The king of the Hoysalas was BITTIDEVA. At the time of Ramanuja's visit to

Thondanur ( Another name of Melukote ), the daughter of king Bittideva and Queen

Shantala was possessed by evil spirits. None of the court magicians or exorcists

could exorcise the spirit. On that account they were greatly distressed not

knowing what to do. They banned all festivities in the palace until their

daughter was thoroughly well.

 

It was just during this period of distress and agony that the Vaishnava devotee

Thondanut Nambu was by chance able to contact Queen Shantala Devi. He suggested

to her that Ramanuja, the great apostle of Sri Vaishnavism from Sri Ramgam,

could exorcise the spirit by his super human powers, and that the great sanyasin

should be summoned forthwith. What better news could there be for the king and

queen?

 

In a short time this king and queen and all his courtiers visited Ramanuja and

begged of him to visit the place and exorcise the devil which had possessed

their princess. Although Ramanuja was willing to comply with the king's request,

he as a sanyasin, disliked his paying a visit to the king's palace. when

Tondanur Nambi and Mudaliyandan came to know of their masters hesitation to

visit the place, they pleaded with him to visit the place for the cause of

Vaishnavism and said " O Master, may we submit that in Melukote hills there us

under the authority of king bittideva, there is a Thirunarayana Temple. To

strengthen the cause of Sri Vaishnavism, we may renovate it and make it a strong

hold of Vasihnavism in the western country. Pray, visit the palace and serve our

cause ". So Ramanuja prevailed upon at last to visit the palace of Bittideva.

 

On Ramanuja arriving entering the royal apartments, his disciples took the water

consecrated by their master and asked the princess to drink a little. And Lo!

the spirit was exorcised and the next moment the princess looked as cheerful as

ever. Ramanujamuni had succeed where others had failed.

 

Ramanuja, as suggested by his own disciples took advantage of the opportunity to

convert the king, a jaina to Sri Vaishnavism. The King and queen were pleased,

and expressed their readiness to accept the new faith. Consequently Ramanuja

initiated tem to Vaishnava Faith, and in token of this conversion, he changed

Bittideva's name to VISHNUVARDHANA by which name Bittideva is know to history.

 

Consequently many Jains including royalty converted to Sri Vaishnavism out of

love.

 

 

--

 

For further details please for to Bhagavan Ramanuja by R.Padmanabhan - LIFCO

Books.

 

Coming to Mandya, Mandya is the immediate town located in the foothills of

Melukote. Sri Vaishnavas here speak a dialect of Kannada and Tamil. Most of the

Iyengars in Karnatka are from Mandya. For further details about Mandya Sri

Vaishnavas please contact Sriman M.A.Alwar who is a member of this list and a

resident on Melukote.

 

adyiEn Malola Narasimha dasan,

 

malolan cadambi