pseudo-gods and hinduism

[Guest guest]

Respected devotees,

 

I have the following to humbly offer as my perspective

regarding this rather strongly worded post:

>I put forth the few lines which are haunting me since a few

>years. These are about two self-styled / self-declared

>incarnations of Lord Vishnu or Lord Siva or Adi Sesha.

 

To the best of my knowledge, neither of these "self-styled"

people declared THEMSELVES as incarnations of the supreme god.

Its the people around them who did so. Therefore, the ire may

have been partially misdirected.

 

> He is the present craze of all people all over India.

>I do not know. Stories are concocted that he is the kaliyuga

>incarnation of Lord Vishnu (I have come across his photos,

 

Exactly! These are STORIES concocted by the people and must be

treated as such. If we take this seriously, we must go the

whole none yards and PROVE that the claims are false. Vitriolic

rhetoric without proof will only serve to inflame passions and

encourage mudslinging leading to even more divisiveness and

misunderstanding.

> People have stooped to such a depraved extent that they

>believe more in him than our Lord Sriman Narayanan or Lord

>Shiva as if our Hindu Gods are 'impotent'.

 

Respected sir, is the 'impotent' part your inference or have

devotees really said that? Please do not mistake my intent - I

am NOT a Sai devotee myself - I am merely an ordinary hindu

with a deep faith in the supreme lord who is seeking to examine

issues with an open mind without preconcieved notions.

 

Curiosity regarding this phenomenon led me to attend one of the

Sai Bhajan sessions in my neighborhood. My experience was quite

different. The Bhajans sung praised Rama, Krishna and our other

Hindu gods. What they stressed on was how there is only one god

and how there are different margas to reach him. In fact, I was

VERY pleasantly surprised when they sang an English Bhajan that

went "Om Shri Ram Jai Ram Jai Jai Ram - Chant the name so

divine - Praise the name so holy and pure..". I am not entirely

convinced that people who can sing such Bhajans with fervour

can possibly think of our gods as impotent. I hasten to admit

that this was my first and only experience at such a gathering

and you may know more from your own experience.

 

 

>He may be a good person (I do not know this too),but

>let us not equate him with God. I find his photo in many of

>thehouses.I do not mind that, but what is causing heartburn to

>me is that I findhis photo is our own Great Sri Vaishanavas's

>homes in Pooja Mandiram just besides our Great Salagramam and

>Udaivar's photo.

 

Could the motivation here have been because our scriptures say

"Gurur Brahma Gurur Vishnu Guru devo Maheshwara" and "Matru

devo Bhava, Pitru Devo Bhava, Guru Devo Bhava"? He could have

been placed there because his followers respected him as a Guru

and not because they thought he was god. Its only a suggestion.

 

Afterall, dont out scriptures say that true enlightenment is

impossible unless learnt at the feet of a learned guru and

hence the deep respect for our teachers in our culture?

 

> Verbatimly speaking, the word of "Sai" means "a

>prophet of Muslim religion", so how can a muslim person become

>"our" Hindu Guru, or HinduGod (as he is referred to).

 

Maybe because in the Bhagavad Gita Bhagawan Sri Krishna says

that I am the only god and no matter which route you choose,

you will finally come to me if you follow the path you have

chosen with sincerity and faith? If you take him at his word,

what difference does it make if the person is addressed as a

muslim or a christian in his human form? Isn't it only true and

sincere faith that matters? We will all reach the lord's lotus

feet in the end, he promises us.

 

That brings to my mind a quote by Swami Chinmayananda " There

are only two kinds of people in this world - Hindus and people

who are actually hindus but dont know it yet!"

>To gain popularity, the propogators of this Sai satsang have

>stooped to such depraved state that they distribute a pamphlet

>to all persons to whom they come in contact. The pamphlet

>reads like this : "Afterreading this pamphlet you are required

>to send 500/1000 copies are all your nearand dear. The result

>-- you may win a lottery. On the other hand, if youtear off

>this, a big catastrophe may take place in your life". For a

>common man who comes across this, the fear that may take place

>may compel him circulate 500 copies.

 

I somehow percieve this as amusing rather than as a threat to

our religion. Its a lot like these email chain letters. At

least email doesn't cost money to forward.

 

Think what will happen when the poor chap spends money from his

pocket to make 500 copies and waits for ever more to win that

lottery. Do you think that being Rs.50 poorer and no lottery

money in sight will make him any kind of a true devotee of Sai

Baba, especially if it was done out of greed as you suggest?

 

Don't we have such people among our mainstream Hindus itself?

All these people who buy a lottery ticket from the stall

outside the temple with promises to shave their heads at

Tirupati if they win the lottery are all in the same boat,

aren't they?

>Or the avarice of making a quick fortune makeshim to circulate

>the copies. That's how he submits his 'soul' to the so-called

>ordinary Muslim person.

 

I have my misgivings about the above statement - If the "soul"

is the atman and if we believe our scriptures that say "Tat

Tvam asi", then aren't all of us manifestations of god? Please

correct me if I am wrong - I though it was because we Hindus

believe that, we have the habit of performing "namaskaram" to

our elders, respected ones and especially our gurus. I thought

a namaskaram was a way of symbolically saying "I surrender my

ego in front of you, whose atma has realized god in his pure

state". Isn't that the justification why even older people in

the Grihastaashrama perform namaskaram to a Brahmachari/Sanyasi

who is supposed to be more god realized because of their

austerities and knowledge? If we are to reject that concept of

god in fellow humans as other religions do, THEN submitting

once ego (I think of it as a submission of the ego rather than

of the soul) to another human being would be wrong. Could

someone more learned please clarify my doubt?

 

 

>Kindly excuse me for using this foul language,but

>I do not find suitable words to vent out my anger on this

>Pseudoincarnation of Lord Vishnu / Shiva -- I would call this

>submission ofsoulto another person other than to our God (our

>Hindu God - be it LordVishnu or Lord Shiva) as "Prostitution"

>- "Prostitution of the Soul".

 

Why do we continue to harbor this concept of a "Hindu god" and

a non-hindu god if god is Brahman and Sri Krishna unequivocally

states that I am the only one and that all roads lead to me?

Isn't that what each of the non-hindu gods say? I took it to

mean that all roads lead to Rome, in this case, the one god. I

can call Rome by any other name but that does not change the

nature of what Rome is - similarly god. All that I ask is I be

allowed to call god by the name that I prefer - Sri Krishna and

be allowed to follow my path of reaching him. Why denounce

anothers choice by the same token?

>Idiomatically speaking, "if a lie is told thousand times, it

>becomes "Truth" with the passage of time and becomes ingrained

>deep inour minds".

 

Only to the unenlightened and those who want to believe it. The

Sattvic personality that is supposed to be our highest

aspiration as human beings according to the Bhagawad Gita,

Chapter 18, verse 20, is supposed to have the ability to

clearly discern the truth from the falsehood.

 

I believe that if it were not Sai Baba, the people who want to

be misled will believe something else. We should be addressing

the cause of this problem and not the effect. The cause is lack

of knowledge and proper guidance.

 

I have one very strong positive thing to say about these

religious leaders though -

 

They have done an incredible amount of social service among

India's poorest and weakest than I, who spend thousands

travelling to India to visit the holy places with my deep

belief in Hinduism have not.

 

For this reason alone, they deserve to be praised rather than

condemned because without their efforts god knows how many more

of India's poorest would have been enticed into Christianity by

the west-funded missionaries. Atleast now, these people sing of

Rama and Krishna - without the Sai Baba's, most of these people

would have sold their souls for money to the missionaries which

should be considered even more depraved.

 

Respectfully,

Shuba.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Hari,

 

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> May I request you to kindly quote the verse from Bhagavad Gita

> which you have refered above in the interpretation! Please.>

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I am unable to tell you the exact verse since I am away from

home and dont have the wisdom or skill to quote the Gita from

memory, but I am referring to the contents of Chapters 10 and

11 and also the chapter on Karma yoga.>

 

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> > You have written:

> >That brings to my mind a quote by Swami Chinmayananda " There =>

> >are only two kinds of people in this world - Hindus and people

> >who are actually hindus but dont know it yet!" => >

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> Please tell me what is the definition of "Hindu"/"Hinduism"?

> I have not understood it.>

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I will not presume to tell you what Swami Chinmayananda means

by Hindu/Hinduism, but I can most definitely share with you MY

own humble interpretation. All faults and errors arise only

from my own ignorance.

 

I believe that Hinduism is basically a recommendation for

living a disciplined, pure and blissful life needed for God

realization. It is a way of life whose very beauty lies in its

complete flexibility to accommodate any and all ways to attain

the supreme god. Hindus are those who believe in our holy

scriptures and epics - the Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana,

Mahabaratha, and the Bhagavad Gita, and attempt to apply to day-

to-day life with all its challenges and dilemmas what they

learnt from the holy scriptures. They take the guidance of a

learned guru to do this and the guru is treated with the

deepest respect and reverence for his knowledge and wisdom.

 

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> >I have my misgivings about the above statement - If the "soul" =>

> >is the atman and if we believe our scriptures that say "Tat =>

> >Tvam asi", then aren't all of us manifestations of god? Please =>

> >correct me if I am wrong - I though it was because we Hindus => >

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> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

> May I request you to kindly let me know what you mean by =>

> "manifestations of god?".>

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By manifestation of god, I meant that each of us is a part of

the Brahman and abide in him constantly. I am no scholar to

debate the merits of Dvaita, Advaita and Visishtadvaita, so if

this is where this question is headed, please excuse me. I am

too ignorant to engage you in a meaningful conversation.>

 

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> > You have written:

> >nature of what Rome is - similarly god. All that I ask is I be =>

> >allowed to call god by the name that I prefer - Sri Krishna and =>

> >be allowed to follow my path of reaching him. => >

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=

> Do you mean here that "anumAnam" can be considered as authority to

> establish "God"? => >

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Kindly forgive my ignorance and explain the meaning of

"anumAnam" so I may understand your question better.

 

Respectfully,

Shuba

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhakthas,

 

I refer to Smt.Shuba’s posting on the above subject and would like to add a

few words on it.

1) “Self Styled Godmen” is a well know phenomenon. In an age where people

look around for instant reliefs, is it correct to hold the gullible

population alone responsible for the spread of this phenomenon.

2) I quite agree with Smt.Shuba – The one positive contribution of some

these god men is that they have diverted a large part of the population to

Bhagawat Vishayams, besides doing social service to neglected and remote

villages. We may not agree with the content and style of their preachings.

However their contribution to society cannot be ignored or overlooked.

3) As regards Smt.Shuba’s reference to the Bhagawad Gita, in chapter 9 –

23, Lord Krishna says “THOSE WHO ARE DEVOTEES OF OTHER GODS AND WHO WORSHIP

THEM WITH FAITH ACTUALLY WORSHIP ONLY ME, O SON OF KUNTI, BUT THEY DO SO IN

A WRONG WAY”.

If we had a burning desire to propagate the religion that we know to be the

right one, it can only be done by spreading the salient features of this to

every one without discrimination.Did not Udayavar (even at the risk of his

going to hell) want the “entire humanity” to be able to go to Heaven. For

this, the concepts and precepts of this religion have to be re-packaged in

a widely acceptable format and in the common man’s language along with

English. Further service to humanity has to be accepted as the most

important mode of service to Sriman Narayana . In this connection the

yeoman service of Sriman. Velukkudi Krishnan Swami in adopting villages and

doing social service there besides bringing in as large a cross section of

people into Srivaishnavism needs to be emulated.

 

Adiyen

 

K.Lakshminarayan

 

 

 

 

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