Guest guest Posted June 4, 2000 Report Share Posted June 4, 2000 A person is destined to enjoy or suffer according to previous Karma. But once he surrenders unto the Lord, the merciful Lord frees him from his previous Karma according to his level of surrender. After all, the Law of karma is made by the Lord himself, so he has full liberty to amend the law to favour his devotee who surrenders unto him. In the Bhagavad Gita, Lord Krishna tells Arjuna to surrender unto him, then he[arjuna] would be freed from all sinful reactions. Your Servant, Vivek. badri narayanan wrote: > > Hello , > A person enjoys in this world the result of Karma > accmulated in the previous birth.He goes through > sufferings in this life due to the bad karma > accumulated in the preious birth.Does it mean that > whatever happens in this life is due to the karma > accumulated in the previous one.Then how does > surrendering himself to te almighty help him to get > rid of his suffering that he is destined to go through > due to his bad karma > Srinivasa Dasan > Badri > > > > Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! > / > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2000 Report Share Posted August 21, 2000 Hello , A person enjoys in this world the result of Karma accmulated in the previous birth.He goes through sufferings in this life due to the bad karma accumulated in the preious birth.Does it mean that whatever happens in this life is due to the karma accumulated in the previous one.Then how does surrendering himself to te almighty help him to get rid of his suffering that he is destined to go through due to his bad karma Srinivasa Dasan Badri Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2000 Report Share Posted August 21, 2000 Dear Sri Badri, When we surrender to Him, it is not just saying, I am falling at your feet, please save me. Here we have to do a lot of tyAgams viz., kartrutva tyAgam, mamata tyAgam and phala tyAgam. The first one is that we should not think that doing saraNAgati is our karma and hence we do it, the second one is that we should not think that we are doing do it. It is only emberumAn who is making us do it. The third one is that we should not think that the fruit of the saraNAgati is for us to enjoy. This is what Sri KrishnA said in Bhagavadh Gita " Sarva dharmAn parityagya". The dharmam here refers to these attributes. Now our AzhwArs and AchAryAs have brilliantly explained the answer to your question as to how our earlier misdeeds are gotten rid off when we do saraNAgati. 1. Sri Poigai AzhwAr's pAsuram " KunRanaya kuRRam seiyyinum guNam koLLum, inRu mudhalAga en nenjE..". Here he says that after doing saraNAgati to emberuman with utmost sincerety realising the sEshatva nature of our swaroopam, emberumAn treats all our sins ( accumulated as tall as a mountain) as bhOgyam for Him. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ karma Author: badri narayanan <b11_narayanan at JPINET 00/08/21 î?îÒ 8:52 Hello , A person enjoys in this world the result of Karma accmulated in the previous birth.He goes through sufferings in this life due to the bad karma accumulated in the preious birth.Does it mean that whatever happens in this life is due to the karma accumulated in the previous one.Then how does surrendering himself to te almighty help him to get rid of his suffering that he is destined to go through due to his bad karma Srinivasa Dasan Badri Mail û Free email you can access from anywhere! / --<e|- Missing old school friends? Find them here: http://click./1/8015/5/_/716111/_/966920295/ --|e>- ----------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2000 Report Share Posted August 22, 2000 Dear Sri Badri, Obviously the sufferings we have in this birth is due to our Paapa karmas. These Karmas are not only pervious birth's karma but it is Anaadhi(i.e it has no begining). The detailed answer for your doubt is in the Avadharikai Vyakyanam of the Thiruvaimozhi "Maalai Nanni"(9-10) .This Thiruvaimozhi has the Pasuram "Saramaagum ThanathaaL Adaidharku Ellam" Karma is divided into two. Praraptha Karam and Sanchitha Karma.Sanchitha Karma is which one has accumalated during his endless number of births. For understanding let's assume that the Sanchitha Karma which a person has accumalated during his births is some 50kg. (becareful it is not so less its like a huge mountain).Within this 50kg Emberuman gives around say some 1/2kg to enjoy during one's birth.This 1/2kg which one enjoys during his Lifetime is known as Praraptha Karma.Note that to finish even this 1/2kg one may take endless no. of births. Again during births we make Paapam and this gets added to the Sanchitha Karma.The sanchitha Karma goes on increasing and the birth cycle continues. Now, for one to get liberated from birth cycle there is only two means. Bhakthi (the uninterrupted thinking about Sriman Narayanan's Swaroopam and Kalyana Gunam, which is highly impossible for us) and Prapathi(surrendering oneself entirely at Lord's feet). When a person takes Bhakthi as his means to attain Lord's feet Emberuman makes the person devoid of all his Sanchitha Karma.Now the person has to finish only his Praraptha Karmas.As said above it many take a large no.of birth to finish even this Praraptha Karma.So one may not no when he can attain Moksham. But for a person who takes Prapatthi as his means for Liberation Lord makes him devoid of all the Sanchitha Karma and Praraptha Karma and leaves only a so small amount of Karma which he could finish within the end of his life(during this current janma).So a Prapannan would have finished all his Karmas by the end of his Janam and therefore attains the Lord's Lotus feet at the end of the Janama. Hope your doubts are cleared. Adiyen request all the members of tis list to forgive my silly words and to point out if Adiyen is wrong. Thanks & Regards Adiyen Lakshmi --- badri narayanan <b11_narayanan wrote: > Hello , > A person enjoys in this world the result of Karma > accmulated in the previous birth.He goes through > sufferings in this life due to the bad karma > accumulated in the preious birth.Does it mean that > whatever happens in this life is due to the karma > accumulated in the previous one.Then how does > surrendering himself to te almighty help him to get > rid of his suffering that he is destined to go > through > due to his bad karma > Srinivasa Dasan > Badri > > > > Mail – Free email you can access from > anywhere! > / > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: > bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more > information > Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2000 Report Share Posted August 22, 2000 badri narayanan writes: > Then how does > surrendering himself to te almighty help him to get > rid of his suffering that he is destined to go through > due to his bad karma Dear Badri, Suffering, as you have correctly written, is the result of our own 'bad karma', in the sense that our prior bad actions motivate God to punish us and put us in difficult situations so that we may reap the consequences of prior activity and will. In other words, it is God's resolve to punish (nigraha-sankalpa) that causes us to suffer, which is in turn dictated by the bad choices we made in the past. How do we overcome the innumerable past bad actions which now torment us? The burden seems insurmountable. Is it that we must do countless good deeds to "counter" the effect of the bad ones? If so, we would have to wait an equally long number of births to settle the account. Furthermore, the so-called "good deeds", even if performed as atonement (prAyaScitta) for past misdeeds, may cause further attachment in our minds, and potentially may drag us down. Is a golden shackle any better than an iron one? The problem of karma appears to be a vicious circle, until we realize that God himself is the way out. For God does not really *desire* to punish us, except to reform us, and set us on the right path. He is waiting for us to act in accordance with our true nature. Our true nature is to be free from karma, to be centers of pure knowledge and bliss, and to to recognize that this pure nature stems from God himself. We are to realize that we are mere modes of God; he is our All, and we, are to act only with this knowledge firmly established in mind. Where does this leave us? The conclusion is that we must turn Godward. Having recognized our true nature which we had forgotten for so long, we contemplate on him, for he is the All, the Source. Contemplation which ripens into loving, undivided meditation on God itself serves as a complete prAyaScitta, for it is a correct turning Godward. This is what he was waiting for all this time. Such a person who so meditates on God is also God's beloved, and this erases, as it were, the entire past sinful record in God's eyes. Such a person is described as a true 'jnAnI', or knower of God, and there is nothing more dear to God than that. Filled with such mutual love, how can one even think of punishing the other? And why would one do so, since the derelict has totally transformed himself? There is still a problem here. Though willing to turn Godward, many may find themself lacking in the mental strength needed to meditate lovingly on God. God himself declares in the Gita that such people are not lost; eventually such thoughts of the divine will plant the seed of true knowledge in them, perhaps in this birth, perhaps in the next. But can they wait so long? In utter abandon and desperation, filled with a burning desire to behold God's true face, they throw themselves completely at his mercy, leaving everything up to him. Coincidentally, such a person has also reached the state of a 'jnAnI', because despite his other shortcomings, he cares for nothing but God. And the utter abandonment of all else in favor of God itself serves as a prAyaScitta for all prior karma, for this is all God was looking for -- a turning toward Him with nothing else in mind. To make a long story short, brahma-jnAna of the form of meditation (bhakti-yoga) or total self-surrender (SaraNAgati) are both complete prAyaScittas for past karmas, because one is seeking God to do the needful in both cases. Re: "enjoyment of sins" ----------------------- Sri T.V. Venkat refers to God's "enjoyment" of the jIva's past sins once he has surrendered. The analogy usually given is to a cow lovingly licking off the dirt of the calf that has approached it. This is a valid anubhavam that many saints have expressed, including Arulala Perumaal Emberumaanaar (a direct disciple of Ramanuja) and Desikar. Poetry written in this vein serve to exalt the greatness of God's mysterious compassion. However, whether such poetic anubhavams were intended as doctrine or philosophy is another matter. Unlike what Venkat has implied, Desika did not accept this idea as philosophical doctrine. We have discussed this issue previously. Please see http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/oct98/0096.html The acharyas of the Sri Vaishnava tradition have disagreed on whether such descriptions of God are doctrinally valid. Desika, trying to reconcile the poetry with philosophy, describes God's "relishing" of sins as poetic exuberance (ativAda). Doctrinally, God simply overlooks the sins and lovingly accepts the jIva who has turned Godward. Pillai Lokacharya, on the other hand, expresses this idea as doctrine. Both ideas have their basis in the writings of earlier acharyas. The question is merely a line of where one feels that doctrine ends and poetry continues. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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