Guest guest Posted August 24, 2000 Report Share Posted August 24, 2000 Hare Krishna Madhavakkannan Prabhu. Could you please elaborate more on the Markandeya pastime. Most of the time this point is not mentioned at all in books ! They only mention the pastime with Lord Shiva. Is this the same Markendeya Rishi who had the bhagyam to see the Lord on the aalilai during pralaya kaalam ? Your servant, R. Jai Simman - <bhakti-list > <bhakti-list > Thursday, August 24, 2000 4:50 PM Digest Number 122 > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > Visit http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/ for more information > ------ > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: demigod worship- query from Sri Badri > madhav.vasudevan > 2. Re: worshipping other deities > Mani Varadarajan <mani > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:37:28 +0800 > madhav.vasudevan > Re: demigod worship- query from Sri Badri > > > > Sri: > Srimathe Gopaladesika mahadesikaya Namah: > > Dear Sri Badri, > > You had asked: > > Being born as Vaishnavas is it a sin worshipping > other Gods ,or is it just that we are not required to > worship other dieties.Is there any harm in worshipping > them as long as we realize Narayana is supreme.What > are we supposed to do when we go to temples which have > many dieties.Should we worship Perumal and > deliberately avoid other dieties? > > ==== > > You asked a very common query asked by all of us, one time or the other.This has > been discussed in great details in the list and can be found in archives. > > Being a SrI JayanthI day, on this auspcicious day, let us discuss at this, > thereby paying our obeisance to the Lord GeethAcharyan Sri KrishNA.- the > Primordial Chief, The Unparalleled, Unsurpassed Supreme, Sriya: Pathi Sriman > Narayanan. > > In GitA, Lord says: > > O son of Kunti! At the end of the Cosmic cycle, (during praLyam) all (- repeat > -ALL)- enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another cycle, by My free > will, and potency, I create them again. (I don't remember the actual slokam) > > THIS INCLUDES You, me- and all demi Gods, whom we worship like four faced > brahmA, Sivan, indran, agni et al. Veda says: sa brahmA; sa siva srEndhra > sOkshara: parama swaraat. He is BrahmA; Siva; Indran. They are also Jivans, like > us and by virtue of their karmAs, have reached that position. They are posts, > and jIvans keep changing at that post (like brahmA, Sivan are posts like General > Manager, Production manager.. whereas Sriman Narayanan is the Owner- He does NOT > change). > > Hence, WE ARE ALL HIS CHILDREN. HIS SERVANTS. No point in calling some demigod > as "appA", when we know who the Father is. > > Now answer for your query: > > We are His dAsans- His devotees, it is He and He alone, who is capable of > granting all that we seek, and pray. (In Gita, He says: whatever the demigods > can grant (to the extent of their powers) is also through Me (as the antharyami > in them). > > WHY ASK SOMEONE when we have the "ACTUAL TRUE GIVER" on our side? > > Now- why ask Him a kilo of vegetables, when he is willing to give His kingdom to > us? He will naturally feed us, take care of us. Ask Him the Big, Grand thing, > and get out of this samsaara saagaram. > > We SHOULD NOT GO TO THE temple, where the demi gods are consecrated, (along with > Sriman Narayanan) and are in abhayahastham. (showing their palms (as if they can > protect us!). Protect from what?- births and deaths.. for ever. It is HE alone - > who can do that. Thirumazhisai AzhwAr, when once was aksed by Sivan (pleased > with AzhwAr's meditation) as to what he seeks, AzhwAr said "You can not give > what I want- it is mOksham- liberation". MarkaNdEya Maharishi, who was saved by > Sivan (by the grace of Sriman Narayanan) from Yama dhUthAs, could not get > freedom from future briths from Sivan. > > IF AT ALL, we HAVE TO GO to the temple, we need to avoid those sannidhis. > > We "can" go if the demi gods are in folded hands (paying their obeisance to Lord > Sriman Narayanan) and then they become Bhagawathas. We can pay our obeisance to > Bhagawathas/devotees of Sriman Narayanan. > > THIS IS NOT JUST FOR THOSE WHO HAVE PERFORMED BHARANYASAM (SaraNAgathy) or > SAMASRAYANAM (pancha samskaram) It is not for Ramanuja's sishyas. Adhi Sankara, > Madhavcharya were also VishNu devotees. It is the difference in interpretations, > they differed from Ramanuja. Not on the Supreme Lord. All vaidikAs are vishNu > bhakthAs. This is the case for all vaishnavas. For all those who belive in > Vedas- For all those who belive in "Hinduism". If someone has a different > opinion, either he does not know or he is not willing to know. > > You may say- after samasrayanam, or baraNyAsam, I will avoid demigod worship.- > not now. It is as if, you can let your daughter have 'n' number of boy friends- > (especially when she knows or you, as "the Father" of the daughter, know the > ACTUAL GROOM HIMSELF). You may say, " I have some picture in my perumAL > sannidhi. How can I throw?" No need to throw. Give ot to them (who still do not > believe Vedas in true sense, and) who worship demi gods. Call them- invite them > at your home and give as gift. Do not hide in your sannidhi. That is like hiding > a boy friend's picture after wedding to Sriman Narayanan. > > Let us pray at the Lotus Feet of KaNNAN. "maNNum viNNum ellaam uNda num KANNAN > kaNNalladhu maRRaiyOr kaNNO?" > > Regards > > Narayana Narayana > adiyEn Narayana Dasan Madhavakkannan > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:39:12 -0700 (PDT) > Mani Varadarajan <mani > Re: worshipping other deities > > > Badri wrote: > > 1) Being born as Vaishnavas is it a sin worshipping > > other Gods ,or is it just that we are not required to > > worship other dieties.Is there any harm in worshipping > > them as long as we realize Narayana is supreme.What > > are we supposed to do when we go to temples which have > > many dieties.Should we worship Perumal and > > deliberately avoid other dieties? > > Dear Badri, > > Let me offer an alternate point of view. > > It depends on your state of mind. If you have absolute > faith in the purifying grace of Narayana, your mind by > itself will develop an aversion to worshipping anything > short of this Ultimate. If you settle for worshipping > anything other than the Ultimate, it only demonstrates > lack of faith and lack of resolve in attaining the > highest good. Our acharyas emphatically emphasize that > we should not settle for any of these lesser goals, > and that we must wholeheartedly and single-mindedly > dedicate ourself only to the highest, Narayana. > > It is not a "sin" to worship other gods, in that you > are not a morally bad person for doing so. It is not > morally wrong like slaughtering a living being or partaking > in such slaughter's fruits. It is, however, detrimental > if you have resolved to focus yourself on the Ultimate, > because you are falling far short of your goal, and you > are not being honest with yourself. Rather than > recognizing your inherent, true nature as a 'sesha' of > Narayana, you are being enslaved by other things, whether > they be sensual pleasures, wealth, or other deities. > Worship of all these other things are not conducive > to the highest spiritual good, because there is no > meeting point between them and your essential nature. > > If you choose to worship anything other than the our > Blissful Beloved Narayana, you must ask yourself why > you are doing so. If you really do not care for attaining > the highest good in the most direct manner, go ahead and > do as you are doing. But if you are really resolved > to attain nothing other than Narayana, there is nothing > that anything or anyone else can give that will satisfy > you. So, the bottom line is that you must stay focussed. > > But even here, it is important to understand that not > all people are mentally ready to take the plunge into the > blissful waters of Narayana. As Nammalvar says, > "avar avar tamatamadu arivari vagai vagai..." -- people > worship their gods according to their inclination and > capacity to grasp the truth. What's more, such gods > themselves are not "false" -- "avar avar iraiyavar > kuRaivilar" -- because even within these gods, our Narayana > stands within and is the power that bestows whatever benefits > they may confer. > > Many such people are simply not ready to become 'ekAntis', > i.e., single-minded in their devotion to Narayana. Perhaps > this is because of their family background or the place they > live; we cannot say. For many such people, worshipping other > divinities is a necessary step for their mind to become slowly > purified, to cross over their mundane desires and realize that > the essential truth of Narayana. We should be careful not > to condemn these people, since their mental outlook is not > conducive to exclusive worship of Narayana. Let them be, > for that is currently the appropriate path for them. Their > worship will slowly purify their mind and eventually it too > will be directed toward Narayana. Yes, it is slower than > the direct path, but this is not our worry. > > You also ask a more practical question which face many of us. > If you go to a temple with many deities, I have been taught > that respect should be given to all, but worship and adoration > is only to Narayana and his parivAras. There is nothing wrong > in avoiding the other sannidhis. But when confronted by the > other deities installed, we must be respectful. For example, when > walking down the street, if all of a sudden we come across > an utsavam of Siva Perumaan, we are to respectfully > hold our hands together, and let the utsavam pass on our > right side. By no means should we do anything disrespectful. > > Furthermore, we shouldn't apply our rules and our philosophy > to members of other traditions. The way Advaita has evolved, > for example, they worship Siva, Vishnu, Ganapati, Parvati, etc., > equally. No matter how wrong we think they are, let them be, is > my opinion. That is the way their acharyas have taught them > for at least a thousand years. Our only quarrel with them > should be if they challenge us. > > aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, > Mani > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2000 Report Share Posted August 24, 2000 Shri Mani, Thank you for your well balanced response to Shri Badri's questions. It was a pleasure to read. > No point in calling some demigod as "appA", when we know who >the Father is. Shri Madhavakannan, I beg to differ. Yes, you would not call somebody else "appA" but that does NOT mean one should purposely disrespect or insult someone else in any way. That is not what our culture teaches us as Shri.Mani rightly points out. > WHY ASK SOMEONE when we have the "ACTUAL TRUE GIVER" on our >side? There is no NEED to ask but that does not allow us to be arrogant about having the giver on our side either. Humility and tolerance are always wonderful virtues even when we are in the service of the lord. > We SHOULD NOT GO TO THE temple, where the demi gods are >consecrated, along with Sriman Narayanan) and are in >abhayahastham. (showing their palms (as if they can > protect us!). I take it there is a good reason they are called demi-GODS and not demi-HUMANS. That must make them superior to an ordinary human being like me in SOME respect even if they are not the ultimate paramAtma. That makes them worthy of my respect even while I acknowledge the ultimate goal as Sri Krishna and I would hesitate very much to take the liberty of taunting them with words such as the ones above. > No need to throw. Give ot to them (who still do not > believe Vedas in true sense, and) who worship demi gods. Call >them- invite them at your home and give as gift. Do not hide >in your sannidhi. That is like hiding > a boy friend's picture after wedding to Sriman Narayanan. > I am deeply pained to read the above statements and feel that this is a great disservice to the lord and his devotees. What kind of a friend would "gift" something he regards as "useless" personally, to another friend who is also an aspirant of the lord? He may have chosen to worship other gods because, as Shri.Mani points out, he is not yet ready for single minded devotion - but his aspirations are the same - he is yet to find the easiest path, thats all! How very unfair to treat his feelings and the gods that the lord says were created by him in this manner. The analogy to adultery is shocking to put it mildly. Please forgive me if I have offended anybody's sentiments in this note. Respectfully, Shuba ^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^% Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence. -Robert Frost ______________ Get your own "800" number - Free Free voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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