The term "Srivaishnava"

[Guest guest]

Dear Mani, RR, friends,

 

I am under the impression that the term "srivaishnava" transcends

caste boundaries. That is, one can be a srivaishnava irrespective of

the varna that one belong to. Is this correct?

 

I know that in practice caste plays a big part but I thought that

at least the term is free of caste connotations.

 

-kasturi

[Guest guest]

Kasturi Varadarajan writes:

> I am under the impression that the term "srivaishnava" transcends

> caste boundaries. That is, one can be a srivaishnava irrespective of

> the varna that one belong to. Is this correct?

>

> I know that in practice caste plays a big part but I thought that

> at least the term is free of caste connotations.

 

Kasturi,

 

Yes, when properly used, the term "srivaishnava" refers to anyone

in the tradition of Sri Ramanuja. We find the term used to denote

a Dalit devotee in the 13th century text 'vArttAmAlai'. Today as

well, the members of Sri Ramanuja sampradAya who are not brahmins

proudly call themselves Sri Vaishnavas.

 

However, in many circles, the word "bhAgavata" is a codeword for

a person in the Sri Vaishnava tradition who is not a brahmin. Hence,

in Kanchipuram, Sriperumbudur, Srirangam, Tiruvallikkeni, etc., where

these devotees are present in large numbers, we hear brahmins often

speak of "our people" and the "Sri Vaishnava gOshTi" as opposed to

the "bhAgavata gOshTi". The expression "He is a bhAgavata" really

means "He is not a brahmin but belongs to Ramanuja sampradAya".

 

Others commonly hold the opinion that "Vaishnava" refers to a

devotee of Vishnu of any caste, but "Sri Vaishnava" refers to

a brahmin devotee. Their verbal usage follows this opinion.

 

In the final analysis, this is divisive. At least in the Prabandham

gOshTi, it is my hope that some day Sri Vaishnavas of all stripes

and genders can gather together and recite the sacred poems of the

Alvars, which by their very design sought to demolish distinctions

among devotees. I do not anticipate this happening in my lifetime.

 

aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

Mani

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Srimathe Ramanujaya Namah:

Dear Sri Mani,

 

I am sure you would have done lot of research and study before answering this.

With my little knowledge and stay at Srirangam, adiyEn has not heard what you

wrote as:

 

However, in many circles, the word "bhAgavata" is a codeword for

a person in the Sri Vaishnava tradition who is not a brahmin. Hence,

in Kanchipuram, Sriperumbudur, Srirangam, Tiruvallikkeni, etc., where

these devotees are present in large numbers, we hear brahmins often

speak of "our people" and the "Sri Vaishnava gOshTi" as opposed to

the "bhAgavata gOshTi". The expression "He is a bhAgavata" really

means "He is not a brahmin but belongs to Ramanuja sampradAya".

 

Others commonly hold the opinion that "Vaishnava" refers to a

devotee of Vishnu of any caste, but "Sri Vaishnava" refers to

a brahmin devotee. Their verbal usage follows this opinion

 

I have always been under the impression that Srivaishnava sampradayam refers to

devotees (of any caste) of Emperumaan sriya: Pathi sriman Narayanan as

BhAgawatha" and I have not heard even once, BhAgawata means one who is not a

brahmin, but belongs to Ramanuja sampradaya. Perhaps, I am ignorant.

 

Also, Vaishnava- devotee of Vishnu (, but of any philosophy- be it Dwaita,

Advaitha or Gaudiya whatever), while Srivaishnava is the one belonging to Sri

Ramanuja Sampradayam (Sri Sampradayam). This is what I have been told. Again, I

ma be wrong.

 

Please forgive me for my indulgence on your analysis and research. I only wished

to express my ignorance.

 

You also wrote:

 

In the final analysis, this is divisive. At least in the Prabandham

gOshTi, it is my hope that some day Sri Vaishnavas of all stripes

and genders can gather together and recite the sacred poems of the

Alvars, which by their very design sought to demolish distinctions

among devotees. I do not anticipate this happening in my lifetime.

 

I can feel the pain in your heart. I do have the same. Bhagawatha sankalpam, we

will see the unity in our lifetime itself. Not to worry.

 

Regards

Narayana Narayana

adiyEn

[Guest guest]

madhav.vasudevan writes:

> I have always been under the impression that Srivaishnava sampradayam refers

to

> devotees (of any caste) of Emperumaan sriya: Pathi sriman Narayanan as

> BhAgawatha" and I have not heard even once, BhAgawata means one who is not a

> brahmin, but belongs to Ramanuja sampradaya. Perhaps, I am ignorant.

>

> Also, Vaishnava- devotee of Vishnu (, but of any philosophy- be it Dwaita,

> Advaitha or Gaudiya whatever), while Srivaishnava is the one belonging to Sri

> Ramanuja Sampradayam (Sri Sampradayam). This is what I have been told. Again,

I

> ma be wrong.

 

Sri Madhavakkannan,

 

You are definitely correct. The primary use of the respectful terms

'bhAgavata',

'vaishNava', and 'SrI vaishNava' are exactly as you describe. This is also how

many Vaishnavas understand and use the terms. In particular, our pUrvAchAryas

such

as Swami Nampillai, Sri Pillai Lokacharya, Sri Vedanta Desika, etc., use

bhAgavata

as a common term for any devotee who belongs to Bhagavan, irrespective of birth,

and we also generally follow this usage when we say 'bhAgavata-kainkaryam',

'bhAgavata-Seshatvam', etc.

 

But in some circles, particularly around Divya Desams and maThams, 'bhAgavata'

is

used specifically to refer a 'sAttAda' Sri Vaishnava, a devotee without a sacred

thread. This term is not used derisively. On the contrary, it started off as a

sign of special respect for these devotees, and continues to be used by many

in the same manner. The older alternative, 'SUdra', which is used by other

brahmin communities, is facially offensive, and was specifically avoided for

that reason.

 

The authority for this is the vAkya from the Mahabharata,

'na bhagavad-bhakto SUdra:' -- 'a devotee of Bhagavan cannot be considered

a SUdra' (ASvamedhika parva, 118.32). As our pUrvAchAryas uniformly write,

despite differences in birth, respect to devotees must be the same.

 

aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

Mani