About the lord's compassion

[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

I am struggling with a philosophical question which I am sure

many of you would have asked yourself. So I request you to share

your thoughts about this.

 

firstly, does nArAyaNA have the capacity to bring his leelA-

vibhUti to a close and give mOksham to every jiva? The answer to

this question seems to be "yes", since everything is supported

and controlled by him.

 

Then why, being a compassionate lord, does he not do this? Is

it not obvious that every jIva will enjoy mOksha more than the ups

and downs of samsara?

 

One way to answer this is to appeal to the fact that samSAra is

beginningless. But still the fact remains that at any point of time,

the lord chooses to let the play of samsAra continue. Does this mean

that his desire for propagating this play somehow overrides his compassion?

 

-Kasturi

[Guest guest]

Dear Kasturi,

 

A very good question. Here is my take on it. Emberumaan Sriman Narayana

is indeed looking forward to give every single jIva moksha. But the

problem is that the jIva, due to an incredible sense of selfishness,

egoism, and possessiveness, goes its own way and refuses to *allow*

Emberumaan to do the needful.

 

As Swami Sri Pillai Lokacharya so eloquently puts it, "The Lord's thoughts

[of our welfare] are always with us." (adu dAn eppOdum uNDu -- SrI vacana

bhUshaNam / svb 67). But his desire to give the jIva liberation from ajnAna

can only bear fruit if the jIva changes its way of thinking -- (adu phalippadu

ivan

ninaivu mArinAl -- svb 68). For forcing a gift upon someone, when that

person does not desire it, or is not ready to receive it, is no gift

at all.

 

His compassion is ever-existent, patiently waiting, or should I say

anxiously waiting, for us to allow Him to protect. This is known

as His siddhopAyatva. One need not draw the compassion out of Him;

one need just receive it. We may see this vividly portrayed in Srimad

Bhagavatam, SrI gajendrAzvAn (the jIva), struggling as he was in the lake

(worldly existence) to escape from the clutches of the crocodile

(the senses), for years felt that his strength was equal to the situation,

and could himself work it out. He finds it difficult to bear, but first

seeks to manage the situation himself. After an intense struggle with

the crocodile, he finds himself still stuck in the lake at square one

or even square zero. He then tries other external aids, such as his

friends and relatives. After eons pass he still finds himself stuck,

perhaps worse off than before.

 

This whole time, due to his delusion (mada), he had ignored the One within

who is ever-ready to do all that is required to free him. But SrI

gajendrAzvAn's struggles, in this sense, are not fruitless, for they have

revealed the true solution to the problem -- nothing, not oneself, one's

possessions, one's friends, relatives, gurus, etc., can remove the troubles of

samsAra. Once the jIva recognizes its helplessness (Akincanyam) and its lack

of any other way (ananya-gatitvam), it finally allows the paramAtmA's

compassion to bear fruit by abandonding self-effort and turning to the Source,

the real protector, for relief. And as oft repeated with respect to SrI

gajendrAzvAn, no sooner had he recognized this truth that garuDArUDha

nArAyaNa was immediately there destroying the crocodile.

 

The description of the material universe as lIlA-vibhUti is to emphasize

that the Lord, as the antarAtmA, is both unaffected by the apparent problems

of the world, and that the problems faced by individual jIvas are a product

of their own karma, not an effect of the cruelty of the Lord. In the

Brahma-Sutras, the declaration that the world is 'mere lIlA' means that

the Lord has no *personal* desire to be accomplished by creation, and

that he remains unaffected by it. This serves to underscore that he has

no desire to inflict punishment on jIvas. The next sUtra states that

the Lord does not play favorites and is not cruel (vaiSamya-nairghrNye na

sApekshatvAt tathA hi darSayati).

 

In other words, the Lord has no personal desire to be accomplished in

propagating this play. He will not be bereft of pleasure if the lIlA-vibhUti

were to come to an end.

 

aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mani

 

Kasturi Varadarajan writes:

> firstly, does nArAyaNA have the capacity to bring his leelA-

> vibhUti to a close and give mOksham to every jiva? The answer to

> this question seems to be "yes", since everything is supported

> and controlled by him.

>

> Then why, being a compassionate lord, does he not do this? Is

> it not obvious that every jIva will enjoy mOksha more than the ups

> and downs of samsara?

> Does this mean

> that his desire for propagating this play somehow overrides his compassion?

[Guest guest]

Dear Kasturi

 

I agree with Mani that you have posed a very interesting and thought

provoking question.

 

Based on reasoning Sri. Mani has reached the following two

conclusions:

 

- The Lord has no *personal* desire to be accomplished by creation

- He will not be bereft of pleasure if the lIlA-vibhUti

were to come to an end.

 

My take on this issue is different:

 

The fundamental axiom of Vedanta is that the cycle of Creation and

dissolution is eternal (without beginning or end), given this, it is

not possible to conceive of any possibility of an end to the cycles.

The infinitely many baddha jivas provide fuel for the repeating

cycle. The Para Brahman, the ordainer, the most compassionate yet

impartial orchestrator, has been and will continue to participate in

this sport of creation and dissolution. It is a game for all

involved and one which provides pleasure to the ordainer (the

reasoning for the pleasure is beyond us because we are under the

delusion of avidya karma.) Based on the readings I have done, my

understanding is that the Para Brahman definitely has desires, but

has the innate ability to satisfy all desires. Saying that he is

desirous of granting moksha to all but is unable to do so, seems to

contradict the knowledge that I gathered from my readings so far.

 

The Brahman of Vedanta is very different from the God of western

theology. As a result, the analysis of the lord's compassion should

be qualified by this difference.

 

ramanuja dasan,

Venkat

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavatha,

you wrote :-

Dear friends,

I am struggling with a philosophical question

which I am sure

many of you would have asked yourself. So I request

you to share

your thoughts about this.

 

firstly, does nArAyaNA have the capacity to bring

his leelA-

vibhUti to a close and give mOksham to every jiva? The

answer to

this question seems to be "yes", since everything is

supported

and controlled by him.

 

Then why, being a compassionate lord, does he not

do this? Is

it not obvious that every jIva will enjoy mOksha more

than the ups

and downs of samsara?

 

One way to answer this is to appeal to the fact

that samSAra is

beginningless. But still the fact remains that at any

point of time,

the lord chooses to let the play of samsAra continue.

Does this mean

that his desire for propagating this play somehow

overrides his

compassion?

 

-Kasturi

 

The answer :-

 

Sri Kasturi the above question is a good

one.

First of all,Lord Sriman Narayana is not only all

powerful,but also bhaktha vatsala and sharanagatha

vatsala.He is ever ready to free the jiva from

prakriti and grant him moksha,but alas,the Jiva

himself is not ready for it.Instead of enjoying the

eternal and Infinite life,which the lord can give

us,we,because of

our strange and peculiar attachment to prakriti are

adament in enjoying finite or perishable life,when our

true nature is infinite.If eternal life is granted to

us by the Lord,when we have not asked for it,then it

looses its value,because we are not in a fit position

to enjoy the same.

This we can observe in our very world,that one can

enjoy some object when one has taste for it and a gift

of that object by some other person (say one's friend)

will be fruitful because such a gift will be rightly

utilized and enjoyed.

 

I draw your attention to Dhruva's story where after

the Lord grants Dhruva the boon of becoming a king and

disappears from his sight,Dhruva laments over his

foolishness of asking Lord vishnu to grant him the

fitness of sitting over his father's lap and becoming

a king,which is a finite event,when he could have

asked for eternal life from Mahavishnu who had

appeared before him.We,in a way are like Dhruva(in his

childhood days)asking for finite things of life from

our lord when he can grant us moksha if asked for.

 

The entire creation(leela vibhuti)is done by the Lord

in the hope of getting atleast one muktha atma(Recall

the slokha in Gita chapter 7,"After many births,the

gnani resorts to me thinking that vasudeva is

all").So,

Moksha is a cosmic event and a glimpse of the same can

be seen in the vaikuntha gadya of

Sri.Ramanujaacharya,in the way in which a muktha atma

is escorted right from the Brahma nadi upto vaikuntha.

 

The Lord has designed the Leela vibhuti for the baddha

jivas in such a way that they enjoy the prakriti

according to their inherent vasanas in infinite ways

and come to a point wherein they understand the

futility of a life led in relation to prakriti and

gradually mature to become a atma gnani first and

finally a Brahma gnani.

 

So,In short,both the leela vibhuti and nitya vibhuti

are gifts of the Lord to his amsas,the jivas,wherein

the former is meant for Brahmanizing the adament and

rebillious baddha jiva and the latter for the

enjoyment of the jivas in their true nature.

 

Hope the above answer satisfies you.

 

Sri Krishnaarpanamasthu.

Suresh B.N.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear friends,

 

As Sri Mani put it the Lord does not derive any pleasure in this world. The

Lord states in Gita that this is inferior nature and describes this as

duhkhalayam asasvatam. He is showing ways to Arjuna personally on how to

give this up. Why would He have any attachement to it at all ? There is

obviously no question of the Lord's desire for this sport overriding His

compassion.

 

As the Lord is svarat, He is obviously not dependant on anything for

pleasure - He is atma rama. So He is waiting to end this leela. But the Lord

also says that every one does not appreciate devotion. Some are foolish or

demoniac and oppose devotion. Others even though they may try are unable to

surrender to the Lord. There is no way these jivas will be happy if the Lord

forced them into devotion because they want to be enjoy forgetting the Lord.

Out of compassion for these living entities the Lord creates the material

universes and gives sacrifices to make sure that the living entities are

happily pleasing each other. Actually, the Lord's compassion overrides His

desire to stop the vibhuti leela.

 

Also as sage Parasara describes the Lord has infinite renunciation. He

simply lets the jiva surrender at his sweet will rather than force him. If a

jiva is very devoted he holds on to the Lord like a monkey holds on to its

mother. Whatever the big monkey does, the small monkey will not let it go.

If the jiva wants to try and reach the Lord, he acts like a man in the well.

The Lord throws the ropes of yoga system so that the man can climb up by

Lord's mercy. If a jiva is interested in surrender but incapable of doing

so, the Lord acts like a cat and carries the jiva like a kitten.

 

Yours humbly

Rajaram V.

 

 

 

Kasturi Varadarajan [kvaradar]

Wednesday, October 25, 2000 7:29 PM

bhakti-list

About the lord's compassion

 

 

Dear friends,

I am struggling with a philosophical question which I am sure

many of you would have asked yourself. So I request you to share

your thoughts about this.

 

firstly, does nArAyaNA have the capacity to bring his leelA-

vibhUti to a close and give mOksham to every jiva? The answer to

this question seems to be "yes", since everything is supported

and controlled by him.

 

Then why, being a compassionate lord, does he not do this? Is

it not obvious that every jIva will enjoy mOksha more than the ups

and downs of samsara?

 

One way to answer this is to appeal to the fact that samSAra is

beginningless. But still the fact remains that at any point of time,

the lord chooses to let the play of samsAra continue. Does this mean

that his desire for propagating this play somehow overrides his compassion?

 

-Kasturi

 

-----------------------------

- SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

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