SrI Murali Kadambi's questions on pA'ncarAtra 6 and 7.

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Dear SrI Murali Kadambi:

 

I have given below the responses to your questions on pA'ncarAtra 6 and

7 to the best of my ability. I request other learned members from the

list to supplement and correct these responses as needed. I hope I

have addressed all the questions you raised. If note, please feel free

to raise them again.

 

-dAsan kRshNamAcAryan

 

========

 

Message: 13

Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:46:25 -0000

murali_kadambi

Re: pA'ncarAtra - An Overview - Part 7.

 

Dear SrimAn Krishnamachari swAmin,

 

As always, your articles are very delectable to read and full of

information. I enjoy reading them.

 

I do have some (dumb) questions, purely resulting from my ignorance.

So, if you could kindly answer them I would really appreciate that.

 

-----------------------

In Part 6 of your series you have written the following regarding the

para aspect of the Lord:

The three modes are together called

the Supreme Deity, called variously as vAsudeva,

nArAyaNa, bhagavAn, AtmA, paramAtmA, vishNu,

kshetraj~na, etc. In this para or transcendental

mode, the Deity is like an ocean of nectar

altogether devoid of waves, quiet, profound,

limitless, unfathomable, pure consciousness,

the abode of the six qualities in fullness,

altogether non-material in nature, devoid of

attributes (nirguNa), devoid of aspects

(nishkala), without discernible forms (nirAkAra,

nira'nga), an embodiment of Absolute Bliss and

Peace. VAsudeva is in a plane where knowledge

and bliss abound unobstructed.

 

Adiyen:

 

Question:

1. You have said that in the para-vAsudeva form, the Lord is

essentially not discernible. Does it mean that he does not have a

divya-mangaLa vigraha bedecked with infinitely precious jewels,

weapons, and the like? Can we infer that this form of the Lord is

not accessible even to the muktas and nithyas let alone to yOgis?

 

Clarification:

 

This just means the effulgence associated with his form is

indescribably great. SvAmi deSikan describes the Sun's effulgence as

but a small fraction of His effulgence, and His effulgence is the

simultaneous effulgence of thousands of suns at the same time.

 

The other significance of this description is that the six guNa-s in

this form are all in their fullness and indistinguishable from each

other, unlike in the vyUha forms.

 

abhinna pUrNa shADguNya vibhavena upabRmhitam |

bhAbhir sitAdibhir dIptam abhinnAbir nirantaram ||

(sAttva samhitA 4.3)

 

The term "nirguNa" that was used in my write-up, which I took from SrI

Rao's book, should be understood as indicating that no one guNa

predominates the others, but all guNa-s are at their full potency, but

they are not active in the process of creation etc. in this form; the

processes of creation etc. are given expression through the vyUha

forms.

 

As far as your question on whether there is a form associated with the

transcendental mode, and their accessibility to muktas and nityas, the

following will clarify these points.

>From SrI BhaTTar's vyAkhyAnam as translated by SrI SrInivAsa rAghavan:

 

In the para rUpa or transcendental form, the Lord has a body endowed

with all the six qualities. He shines with intense brilliance and

luminosity, and has hands and feet all around. This is called the para

rUpa which is unique, which is the support of all, and which is

all-pervasive. From this emerge three other forms (SamkarshaNa,

pradyumna, and aniruddha), which are distinguished by the possession of

knowledge and other qualities allotted to each one of them and which

bestow the fruit, namely Beatitude.

 

He quotes from the sAttvata samhitA, which specifically uses the word

"vigraham":

 

shAdguNya vigraham devam bhAsvaj-jvalana tejasam |

sarvatah pANi pAdam tat….||

param etat samAkhyAtam ekam sarvASrayam vibhum |

etat pUrvam trayam ca anyat j~nAdyaih bheditam guNaih ||

viddhi etat vyUha sam~jnam vai nih: Sreyasa phala apradam |

mukhyAnuvRttibhedena yuktam j~nAnAdibhih guNaih ||

 

 

Based on all the above, bhagavAn in His para form is endowed with a

body of Suddha sattva, with intense brilliance, with infinite hands and

feet all around, and with the fullness of all the kalyANa guNa-s

(shAdguNya paripUrNatvam).

 

-----------------------

 

Regarding your question as to whether He is accessible to multas etc.

in this form, please note SrI BhaTTar's following commentary:

 

"Para is that form which is not conditioned by any limiting adjuncts

and which is not the effect of another object. It is endowed with the

six qualities (knowledge, strength, etc.). It is a great ocean with

surging waves. It has a world of enjoyment that is boundless and

eternal, and in which it exercises undisputed sovereignty. That again

is the object of attainment for the released souls".

 

Please note the last sentence: In this form, He is the object of

attainment of the released souls - SrI BhaTTar's own words are:

muktoasRpyam anupAdhikam avasthAnam.

 

Also, from the ahirbudhnya samhitA (9.30)-

 

nitayir muktair nirAbAdhair nirmalAnanda lakshaNaih |

sAkshAt paSyadbhih ISAnam nArAyaNam anAmayam ||

 

indicating that the nityas and the mukta-s always enjoy this form of

His.

>From SrI Ramachandra Rao's book. P. 107,

 

"It is the form assumed by para vAsudeva for being meditated upon by

the yogins (yoginAm dhyAnAlambanArtham bahgavataiva kalpitah)".

 

The transcendental and emanatory forms are in the high heavens, known

directly only to the immutable masters (nitya sUris) and emancipated

souls (mukta-s) - vaikunThEsmin para vyUho sadA paSyanti sUrayah).

 

 

 

-----------------------

In Part 7, you have written the following regarding the antaryami

aspect of the Lord:

The antaryAmi mode is the extension of

aniruddha in the hearts of all devotees, WITHOUT

ASSUMING A SHAPE. As indicated earlier, not all

samhitA-s list the arcA and antaryAmi modes as

separate modes. The sAttvata samhitA considers

the para and vyUha as the ones in SrI vaikuNTham,

and the vibhava as all the forms on this earth.

 

Adiyen:

(NOTE: For clarity, I have taken the liberty of upper-casing the

relevant text.)

 

Question:

Same as before. How, then, do yOgis visualize Him in the cave of the

heart? In order to appear to yOgis, He must have some form such as

mAdhava having maces (gada) in all four hands, right?

 

Clarification: Here you are just re-iterating the point that I made.

It is not possible for many of us to meditate on Him in this antaryAmi

form, and this is why He appears in the arcA form, with a arcA tirumeni

having the Sankha, cakra, kirITa, etc. In fact. Yoga is one of the

a'nga-s of the bhakti mArgam, which is not guaranteed to yield results

in one's lifetime even, because of the difficult and strenuous path of

bhakti. This is because the a'nga-s of bhakti, including the yoga, are

too difficult for all to practice. This is the whole basis behind the

superiority of the prapatti mArgam, which is something anyone who is

willing to surrender to Him can do. So you are correct that it is not

possible for most of us to meditate on Him in the antaryAmi mode. In

Chapter 12 of the gItA, Lord kRshNa explains in detail how we are

accustomed to associate the body with the soul, and how it is difficult

for most of us to meditate on a soul in the absence of an associated

body. Because of this constant association of body with the mind, it

is easier for us to meditate on paramAtmA with a tirumeni than to

meditate on the self, the antaryAmi form, etc.

 

-----------------------

You write the following regarding the vyUha emanations:

The concept of the vyUha emanations from

para-vAsudeva is related to the pillar of

light resplendently located in SrI vaikuNTham,

and said to be assumed by the Deity for the

purpose of meditation by the yogi-s. The pillar

has four nodes, each facing one of the four

principal directions. The topmost node is

altogether bright light, representing vyUha-vAsudeva.

 

adiyen:

Question:

 

First off it was hard for me to visualize the pillar with four nodes

"one above the other." I am assuming that a node is a corner. Do

you mean anything else with the word "node?"

 

Clarification:

 

SrI Ramachandra Rao has used the samskRt term "parva", and has

translated it into the English word "node". I think this is the

general accepted English term in descrbing the viSAkha Yupa in other

works as well. The pillar is imagined as having four nodes (parva)

from top to bottom, each node facing a different direction. Parva is

given the meaning "a knot, a joint, a limb". The nodes, which are the

points at which the shoots sprout, are represented by the four vyUha

forms. The pillar is described as viSAkha because there are no shoots

but only nodes, or because there are shoots all around (vitata). SrI

Rao does not give a reference to the latter interpretation, vitata, but

he goes on to describe vyUhAntara and other forms that sprout from the

vyUha forms, and one can imagine that the viSAkha yUpa tree has four

limbs, with sprouts on each of these limbs.

 

The idea I take from the description is that the vyUha forms are the

forms that resulted directly from the para form, in the concept of

creation in the pA'ncarAtra. The vyUha forms precede the vibhava forms

that bhagavAn took in order to become more easily accessible to the

people. The para form and the vyUha forms are His forms in

SrIvaikunTham.

 

-----------------------

 

Your question:

 

Secondly, if all the vyUha forms are in Sri-Vaikuntham and these

forms are responsible for the worldly activities of creation,

sustenance, and dissoluation, then would it not imply that such

activities occur "in" (or at least "from") Sri Vaikuntham? At the

time of dissolution (praLaya), then, will the nascent forms of the

jeevas and prakrti be absorbed back into Sri-Vaikuntham? The reason

I ask this is because I was under the impression that all worldly

activities happen "outside" of Vaikuntham. At the time of praLaya,

the prakrti and baddha-jeevas are absorbed back into the Lord, but

these will not "reside" in Vaikuntham. Vaikuntham has described as

"rajasah parAke" and "tamasah parastAt" both broadly meaning "beyond

prakrti."

 

Clarification:

 

I do not have any direct quote to respond to this. So I am going to

give you my best understanding, and request anyone else in the list to

add/change this explanation as needed. I am giving you two different

answers to the question.

 

1. The jIva is pure and uncontaminated, and so there is no question of

tamas, rajas, satva, etc. being associated with the jIva. So there is

no issue of SrIvaikunTham being contaminated with the three guNa-s when

the jIva resides in bhagavAn duriing pralaya.

 

2. One mistake that we all commonly make is to apply the laws of the

physical world to bhagavAn's leelA. He is beyond the laws of Nature as

we know it. For example, He does not age, He is not born, etc. He

creats all the Universes that exist by a sheer fraction of His power,

and just by the thought that He wants to create them, He creates them -

samkalpa mAtrENa. In the ISAvAsya upanishad, there is a mantra which

says that even if we toil to reason out His origin, existence, etc.

through our mind, we will never had made an iota of progress in a whole

life time. And this is using a mind which is faster than the speed of

light. What this says is that He can only be realized by meditation,

by actual experience, and not by logic and reasoning. The question of

whether the creation occurs when bhagavAn is in SrIvaikunTham or

somewhere else, whether He physically is in SrIvaikunTham or on earth

when the jIva-s merge with Him during pralaya, etc., may be in the

category of trying to logically understand His leelA.

 

---

 

Your question:

 

Also, what is the role of the Lord in the milky ocean (ksheerAbdhi-

nAthan)? Is He also a vyUha form?

 

Clarification:

 

I might have said this in different places before, but to make the

point again: The vyUha forms are those in SrI vaikunTham, accessible

only to the nitya-s and mukta-s. It is the form that is meditated upon

by the yogi-s. bhagavAn took the vibhava and other forms in order to

become more and more accessible to the people.

 

The classification of the different forms of bhagavAn as vyUha,

vibhava, etc. differs in the different samhitA-s and in the different

interpretations, as I have mentioned in my write-up. As I had

indicated before, SrI BhaTTar lists the antaryAmi and arcA as

vibhava-s. So the distinction between whether a given form is a vyUha

or vibhava is subject to interpretation ins ome cases.

 

The pA'ncarAtra samhitA-s quoted by SrI Ramachandra Rao in his book

list only the vAsudeva, samkarshaNa, pradyumna and aniruddha forms as

vyUha forms. There is no explicit reference to bhagavAn's form in the

Milky Ocean that I could find in his book, or in Otto Schrader's book

on ahirbudhnya samhitA as I skimmed through it.

 

SrI Sadagopan has submitted a write-up in the list on Jan. 4, 1999,

wherein he quotes the sacred words of SrI pouNDarIkapuram Asramam

ANDavan, listing bhagavAn's form as He reclines in the Milky Ocean as

belonging to vyUha. SrI Anand Karalapakkam has also referred to this

form as a vyUha form in his article in the list on May 22, 2000.

Based on the above two references, I would say that in our sampradAyam,

bhagavAn's form as He reclines in the Milky Ocean is a vyUha form

(which is a form that is to be meditated upon by the yogi-s), but not

something easily accessible to the ordinary people (a characteristic of

the vibhava forms at one statge or the other).

 

 

(I can fully understand that the concepts of "inside" and "outside"

are very vague in such a context, but how else can I express them.)

 

-----------------------

 

Thanks very much for your answers.

 

|| sarvam srI krSNArpaNamastu ||

-adiyen, murali kadambi

 

 

 

 

 

 

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