Sri GuNa Rathna Kosam --> Part XXVI:SlOkam 17, Consciousness in the state of moksha

[Guest guest]

First my praNaam-s to everyone.

 

If I am aloud to ask some questions to the learned members of the

list related to nature of moksha, Lakshmi, in VishishhTaadviatic

tradition. These are for my own clear understanding of the darshaNam

since I do not know. I posted one yesterday but it did not go

through since by mistake put bhakti-list unsubscirbe in the To:

block - sign of getting old! I appreciate answers with shruti and/or

smR^iti pramaaNa-s if possible.

------------------

Question about Shree Maha Lakshmi - the post that bounced back before:

>......

>She was born along with nectar during the churning

>for Amrutham from the milky ocean. Hence , She is

>addressed as "SudhA Sakhi". Her great affection for

>those , who seek Her is hinted by Her Name "Rathi"

>(preethi).

>.

>

>SrimathE RanganAyaki jayathu

>Daasan , Oppiliappan Koil VaradAchAri SatakOpan

>

 

Enjoying the beautiful description of Shree Maha Lakshmi.

 

1. My question is related to the birth of Shree Mahaa Lakshmi - How

is her birth accounted? Was she not there before ksheerasaaraga

mathanam? Or is there some philosophical significance for this

birth. - As I understand Shree is always there with NaaraayaNa.

Purusha suuktam says:- hRiishchate lakshmiishcha patnyau - aho raatre

paarshve -implies that she is there with Him all the time - This

birth implies as if she was not there before the mathanam took

place. Any explanation and pramaaNa-s for her existence before the

ksheerasaaraga mathanam and if so why she took birth again. -On the

other hand, - jaatasya hi dhruvo mR^ituH says Giita - Does she also

undergo cycles of birth-and-death if she is born - or does this

statement applies to only leela vibhuuti. What is the explanation of

her birth during the mathanam?

 

2. About creation -As I understand (a) jagat and jiiva-s are satyams

-(b) It is cyclic process and not linear process. I assume then that

the creation is the grossification from subtle states. I am aware

of Bhagavaan Ramanuja's criticism of avidya of adviata doctrine. Is

not avidya the cause for the bondage of the jiiva in

VishishhTaadvaitic tradition too - my understanding as of now is that

jiiva-s do not realize his aswatantra nature due to avidya - am I

right? And this avidya is also anaadi? Hence there is no beginning

for the bondage but only end. Please correct me if I am wrong. How

did jiiva-s get into that state of avidya - if avidya is not their

intrinsic nature. - I understand the anaadi aspect of avidya - but

why they have- that is my question?

 

3. Next related to Consciousness in moksha: I understand Bhagavaan

Ramanuja considers consciousness is as an attribute of jiiva not

swaruupa lakshaNa of jiiva - am I right? In moksha, what exactly is

the nature of jiiva? I know he is tiny at least that is what I

gather for the interpretation of the word suukshhmam implies. And I

also realize he is a conscious entity - but if it is his attribute,

my question is related to the locus of that attribute.

 

Actually this may have deeper question that has been bothering me -I

am trying to understand the attributes of an object and the locus of

these attributes. I realize Bhagavaan Raamaanuja and Shree Vedanta

Deshika discuss the relation between the attributes and objects in

terms of samavaayu of taarkika-s. What exactly an object then -sans

attributes or what is its intrinsic nature - or can we ever know an

object - If I say I see a pencil there - what exactly is the pencil -

I can describe its attributes and say pencil is there - but

attributes are not the pencil since it is the locus for the

attributes - Is pencil only an inference in the mind since one cannot

have a pencil without its attributes or does the pencil really exists

and on what basis would I know without the mental inferences

involved. I know jagat is satyam - since jagat is assemblage of all

objects - essentially it boils down to does an object exists without

mind inferring its existence - how can we know that without bringing

mental inferences into picture since only attributes are recognized

by the senses?

 

I am applying the same logic to jiiva as an object what exactly its

intrinsic nature and how is it recognized from one to the other. I

gather jiiva is given a divya shariira in the moksha - is it not?

without that shariira he cannot operate? I am all puzzled about all

these concepts.

 

4. Is there a hierarchy in the jiiva-s in moksha - that is one

superior and one inferior etc. Like Maha Lakshmi is superior to

Brahma, Sanatkumaara-s, Narada and other deities and then jiiva-s

etc. On what basis this hierarchy is set or is it intrinsic to

jiiva-s in terms of their nature (here again I am coming back to

previous question in essence) . This aspect is unclear to me. I

know in dwaita it is - they give an example of small pot and a big

pot - the pot size is intrinsic to jiiva - why it is so is not clear

to me either other than it is so-In moksha each pot is full with

aananda but one is bigger pot compared to the other etc. Is it

similar what exactly the nature of jiiva swaruupam - I think that is

my central question. I understand shesha-seshii bhaava but what

exactly does he do in moksha - What does service of the Lord in

Moksha exactly mean? I realize that Lord does not need our service,

then exactly what does service really imply? Why does one want to

serve or is it again the intrinsic nature of the jiiva - to serve. I

would like to be clear on these concepts.

 

5. When ones goes to VaikunTa there is no return back, is it not?

yadgatvaa na nivartante tat dhaama paramam mama - says Giita. Then I

hear about the story of Jaya and Vijaya who were guards at the

vaikunTa. Their behavior towards Sanatkumaara-s indicates that they

are subjected to rajo guNa even in VaikunTa - and they were cursed to

return back to the earth. How do we account the triguNa-s even in

Divyavibhuuti - and that jiiva-s are still under their influence. If

jaya and vijaya can return back then other jiiva-s can too. But that

violates B.G. statement. Any clarification?

 

I hope I am not offending the list members with my inquisitive

questions. I want to be clear about my understanding of

vishishhTaadviata principles.

 

With Pranaam-s

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

--

K. Sadananda

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