God's Grace

[Guest guest]

This topic (Lord's grace on Fortunates) is going in my mind

for a quite long time. But I really could not discuss with anybody.

 

In my opinion, His gracious glances are pre-determined one and fortunate are

those who receive it. If we see the birth of our Acharyas ( RamAnujar,

Desikan and also Adi Shankarar) and Alwars, theirs are avatars of one of

nitya sooris (Adi seshan) and/or God's closely related things ( like

sangam, chakram,

Ghanta Mani) etc. Adi seshan took birth as Lakshmana as well as

RamAnujar. Also Ajaya, Vijaya took as Sisupalan, Hiranyakasipu etc. (Ajaya

& Vijay

were cursed to take birth in Bhoolokam and their

demand for thinking about God always during their tenure in Bhholokam

was granted in a negative way by thinking of God out of fear for their life

and claim

of their supremacy. And their death was pre-determined one by God).

Also Mandana Mischrar and his wife were

avatars of Brahma and Saraswati during Adi Shankarar's (an avatar of Lord

Shiva) time.

Similarly so many births took place and all our PurAnas, Itihasas and

Bhagavatam give

ample references for this. So during difficult times and as part of His

Leela, He sends the same

set of (super) souls who is nearer and dearer to Him in different forms.

They come and go again

and again with some specific assignments. And also Acharya and their

leadership

position are also pre-determined by God for a specifc task and people of

their times identify and follow them (unlike we choose and elevate a person

based on their knowledge,faith etc). Since He showers His Grace only to few

select Super Souls, many times I doubt whether we are all really destined to

reach His Abode and do kaimkaryams. Also we do not really know what for we

are

and who we are.

 

Also, in my opinion, nornally ordinary souls do not have any such specific

task other than

praise Him and follow the

path provided to us by Acharyas. The only Grace could be we take birth as

human form to think of

Him. In this He simply watches out our actions and we get results based on

our actions

According to karma theory we are the determinants of our own karma. God

normally do not interfere in our karma phalan and also will not wipe out our

karma. As a Creator

at the most out of compassion He may reduce our sufferings arise out of

karma and provides more and more chances to reduce our sins arsing out of

karma by

allowing more births till we become eligible to receive His grace. That is

why scriptures

also advice us to do good and have detachment from worldly life otherwise it

would lead to more

karmic actions.

 

So the question whether merciful Lord wantonly choose one individual to be

the recipient of his grace and allow the "unfortunate" rest to suffer as

usual seems to be true due to karma theory. At the maximum we can praise

the Lord, life of our Acharyas & Alwars and enjoy their works. Because ours

are departed

souls from His Abode. So we have to just wait for his Grace to reach back

Him and we do not know really when it would happen.

 

Since the topic came for discussion I simply mentioned things that came on

my mind and seek

pardon if anyone get hurt by my words in whatever way. Adiyen request

BhagvatAs to

correct me of wrong understanding of the subject if any and enlighten me.

 

Adiyen

Balaji K

 

-

"Mani Varadarajan" <mani

<s.vinjamuri

Cc: <bhakti-list>

Friday, June 15, 2001 1:11 AM

Re: Why Partha's Sarathy?

 

> Srimahavishnu Vinjamuri writes:

> > Now the question comes as to why Lord krishna chose Yasoda as

> > His mother. why not vasishta's wife arundhatI or Goddess

> > saraswatI? the answer is nirhEtuka krupA. fotunate ar the ones

> > on whom the gracious glances f divya dampatis fall. rest

> > everybody is unforutnate.

>

> Dear Vishnu,

>

> Can you clarify this point? Are you saying that the merciful Lord

> is so capricious and partial that he would wantonly choose one

> individual to be the recipient of his grace and allow the

> "unfortunate" rest to suffer as usual?

>

> Mani

>

>

>

>

>

> -----------------------------

> - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

> To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list

> Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/

>

>

> Your use of is subject to

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>In my opinion, His gracious glances are pre-determined one and fortunate are

>those who receive it.

 

I have a big problem in appreciating this concept, if it is said that

it is predetermined by Him then, He becomes partial - while he

declares - samoham sarva bhuuteshu name dveshosti na priyaH|

 

If it is predermined by me, then it is the result of my past actions

or prarabda karam-s. But I was the author of those karma-s and I can

do better in future to earn that grace. Thus grace in a way I can

earn by acting properly now. 'His grace' is a graceful way of saying

that it is result of my own actions of the past and present -

prarabda and purushaartha. This means I can make myself fortunate by

acting properly now. He is ready to shower as long as I make myself

qualified by my own efforts. Responsibility for grace rests on me

now.

 

> He sends the same

>set of (super) souls who is nearer and dearer to Him in different forms.

>They come and go again

>and again with some specific assignments. And also Acharya and their

>leadership

>position are also pre-determined by God for a specifc task and people of

>their times identify and follow them (unlike we choose and elevate a person

>based on their knowledge,faith etc). Since He showers His Grace only to few

>select Super Souls, many times I doubt whether we are all really destined to

>reach His Abode and do kaimkaryams. Also we do not really know what for we

>are

>and who we are.

 

I have another problem in grading the souls in vaikunTa in terms of

superiority and inferiority of the souls. If it is based on one's

karma then we are back to limitations even in VaikunTa and it becomes

in no way different from the Leela Vibhuuti. If the superiority is

based on the intrinsic differences in the souls then the question

arises on what basis these differences exist, particularly if all are

sat chit ananda swaruupa-s. Principally are there swaruupa

lakshana-s that makes one superior to the other! On what basis these

swaruupa lakshaNa-s established and why???

 

Open to learning.

 

Hari Om

>Sadananda

 

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

K. Sadananda writes:

> I have a big problem in appreciating this concept, if it is said that

> it is predetermined by Him then, He becomes partial - while he

> declares - samoham sarva bhuuteshu name dveshosti na priyaH|

 

I agree that the doctrine as described by our previous

correspondents is problematic. I should point out, however,

that no one said that anything is predetermined (this is a position

of the Sri Ananda Tirtha [Dvaita] not Sri Ramanuja) -- Sri Malolan

and Sri Vishnu have only said that the Lord's choosing of Yashoda

or Arjuna is pure leela. The conclusion drawn is that this is

arbitrary and no further investigation can or need be done.

 

God's impartiality and lack of cruelty is agreed to by all, as we

must, since we would have no hope if God were a capricious tyrant

bestowing favors arbitrarily on whomsoever He chose without any

regard to individual circumstance. As the venerable Badarayana says,

partiality and cruelty cannot be attributed to the supreme

Brahman because the Veda and allied scriptures are emphatic

about it (brahma-sUtra 2.1.35).

 

Which is where Malolan's and Vishnu's citation of the choice of

Arjuna being merely the Lord's "leela" becomes problematic. God

is declared to be impartial precisely in the same breath

as the declaration that this world is merely His leela.

These two are mentioned together because to be God's 'leela'

means that God Himself has no *personal* need to be

fulfilled by creation. Ordinarily, we perform something

with the idea of fulfilling a desire, because we lack

something. God, on the other hand, is not in want of anything,

i.e., He would not left unfulfilled if He had not done this.

His essential nature, as Sri Ramanuja writes at once in

commenting on this topic, is that He is already perfect in

Himself (avApta-samasta-kAma, paripUrNa).

 

It does not mean arbitrary or capricious. Which means

that if the Lord has chosen Arjuna, or Yashoda, it must

have been due to some reason -- even if the Lord himself

has concocted some pretext out of His own grace unbeknownst

to the individual upon whom He is bestowing His favor

(cf. Sri Vachana Bhushana s.386 and Daya Satakam v.74).

 

If, on the other hand, God is gracing a jIva randomly,

it should strike one that such a God *must* be partial as well

as cruel -- for why did He not pick me; and further, why

did He leave me toiling in samsAra yet take that other

individual to eternal bliss?

 

I'd rather avoid technical and emotinally charged terms

such as 'upAya', 'nirhEtuka', 'sahEtuka', 'prapatti', etc.,

and merely examine the issue using everyday reason.

 

There is no disagreement that we should never think

of anything that we do as a *purchase* of God's good

station. This is the principle of sAttvika tyAga

or enlightened renunciation enunciated by the Lord

Himself in the Gita. For nothing we do can be

considered equal payment to the gifts that God gives

us. And certainly one who has realized that God alone is

the Means and the Goal should be even more steadfast in

this belief. However, to imply that God acts randomly,

and that such action is at the same time impartial

from an objective standpoint, does not stand the test

of reason, nor does it stand up to the careful writing

of our pUrvAchAryas.

 

Sri Sadananda writes, on an another note:

> I have another problem in grading the souls in vaikunTa in terms of

> superiority and inferiority of the souls.

 

Such a gradation does not exist in Visishtadvaita Vedanta.

All souls which have attained the Lord are fundamentally equal

and enjoy the same infinite bliss in Vaikuntha. Once again,

you may be thinking of the Dvaita school where intrinsic differences are

proposed -- and you are right, this makes it better than samsAra

only in name.

 

aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

Mani

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani and Sri Sadanandagaru,

 

The Daya Aspect of Bhagavan is exemplified in the Daya Shatakam of Swami

Vedanta Desikan. Following is an English Commentary on Daya Shatakam by Sri

Muralidhar Rangaswamy mama.

 

http://members.tripodasia.com.sg/krishna/

>Sri Malolan

> and Sri Vishnu have only said that the Lord's choosing of Yashoda

> or Arjuna is pure leela

 

I should have been bit more explicit in my mail. Daya is a Kalyana Gunam of

bhagavan. Daya is not leelai. (Refer: the commentary available above.)

 

At this point, I would reccomend members taking part in this thread as well

as others to study the Daya Shatakam of Swami Desikan. I strongly feel that

all our doubts will be cleared. The Kalyana Gunam of bhagavan is very well

established as Daya Devi in Daya Shatakam.

 

On the other hand, Sri Sadananda garu has pointed out:

> > I have a big problem in appreciating this concept, if it is said that

> > it is predetermined by Him then, He becomes partial - while he

> > declares - samoham sarva bhuuteshu name dveshosti na priyaH|

 

When Suprabatha Seva begins everyday for the Brahman in Thirumala(Refer Sri

Bhasyam "Shruti Shirasi VidIpthE BrahmaNi SrinivasE"), the bhattars chant;

 

"NiranjanAya vidhmahE nirAbadhA ya dimahi, tannas srInivAsa prajOdayat.h"

 

NiranjanA means free of all imperfections

 

The Shruthi prastana is best understood by following bhaasyas. Sri Mani

pointed out the brahma sutrams as well as Vachana Bhooshanam and Daya

Shatakam. Before we go ahead, we must take a note that this is a very

delicate topic.

 

Regards,

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Daasan,

 

Malolan Cadambi

"Un Adikkeezh amarnthu PuhuzhndEne" - Swami Nammalwar

 

 

_______

 

Get your free @ address at

[Guest guest]

Manni Varadarajan wrote:

>

>It does not mean arbitrary or capricious. Which means

>that if the Lord has chosen Arjuna, or Yashoda, it must

>have been due to some reason -- even if the Lord himself

>has concocted some pretext out of His own grace unbeknownst

>to the individual upon whom He is bestowing His favor

(cf. Sri Vachana Bhushana s.386 and Daya Satakam v.74).

 

..x snipx ........................

>Sri Sadananda writes, on an another note:

>> I have another problem in grading the souls in vaikunTa in terms of

>> superiority and inferiority of the souls.

>

>Such a gradation does not exist in Visishtadvaita Vedanta.

>All souls which have attained the Lord are fundamentally equal

>and enjoy the same infinite bliss in Vaikuntha. You may be

>thinking of the Dvaita school where intrinsic differences are

>proposed -- and you are right, this makes it better than samsAra

>only in name.

>

>aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

>Mani

 

Thanks Mani for educating me.

 

Once we accept (a) God by definition cannot be partial and (2) Lord

has chosen or chooses an individual soul not randomly but for some

reason and © there is no intrinsic differences between soul to

soul in VaikunTa -and (d) He has no self-motivating (or desire

prompted) cause to do anything including the Leela, then, as I see

it, we are faced with problems to justify the basis of the selection

of X over Y etc. The possible alternatives are:

 

1. Souls are selected not from VaikunTa but from the ones who have

not reached moksha yet - which means that they still have not reached

the final goal, hence distinctions due to upaadhi-s based on karma

samskaara remain with them. Hence some are suitable and some are not

suitable for a given task - The selection then depends on the

samskaara of the individual souls rather than the Lord's choice per

sec. In other words Lord provides an environment for evolution of

that soul by giving him an opportunity to serve in the upliftment of

the society. Thus Grace is earned rather than given randomly.

 

2. His reasons are incomprehensible for our limited intellect - This

is alternate way of saying either it is anirvachaniiyam ( sounds like

an advaitin!) but only means it is inexplainable by intellect, which

is limited by definition; or it is his Leela and who are we to

question that - but that sounds authoritative. Both are only a

sugar-coated explanations without explaining anything but asking us

to accept as it stands.

 

In terms of distinction between the souls in the moksha - Yes the

jiiva-jiiva bhinnatvam is accepted in Madhva tradition. That leaves

tara tama bheda-s between the jiiva-s - and as I understand they do

not provide a justification or basis for the intrinsic differences

between jiiva-s - other than it is so. I am not sure if there are

any scriptural pamaaNa for that.

 

Since bahujiivatvam is accepted in vishishhTa advaita tradition, if

jiiva-jiiva bhinnatvam is not there intrinsically, yet each one is

anu pramaanaat - I am facing some difficulties

(1) The implication is one jiiva cannot distinguish another jiiva in

moksha since sajaati, vijaati and swagata bedha-s are not there.

(2) Can jiiva-s distinguish paramaatma? - I understand the anantatvam

of the Lord in all aspects and parimita aspect of jiiva - the

question is more in terms of through what instruments jiiva

distinguishes paramaatma without the upaadhi-s needed to distinguish.

(3) Upaadhi-s are not there - (am I right?) - since if upaadhi-s are

there we run into problem of accounting on what basis a particular

type of upaadhi is given - since in moksha all the karma janita

samskaara-s are dissolved (if they are not then we are back to the

same limitations as in this leela vibhuuti - since there is tara tama

bheda-s in karma and hence karam phala).

(4) - anupramaanat - does that imply a boundary in some form - where

one jiiva ends and another jiiva starts - if upaadhi-s are not there

to provide a distinguishinig boudaries between jiiva and jiiva. how

the boundaries are recognized Does jiiva knows he is anupramaanaat -

if he does on what basis?

 

(5)- Enjoyment of infinite bliss by finite anu pramaana jiiva - I am

not sure what infinity means here- eternal sound right at least time

wise. Can jiiva enjoy the bliss without having instruments or

upaadhi-s for enjoying? - Is bliss swaruupa lakshaNa of jiiva or

Brahman or neither. Question enjoyment of bliss itself is a problem

for me - is bliss an object of enjoyment or bliss comes from an

enjoyment of an object - Infinite enjoyment from a finite object

cannot be there - Infinite enjoyment from an infinite object can be

there - One can say that Lord himself is an infinite bliss since He

is infinite. But being anu pramaanaat how am I going to enjoy

infinite bliss being tiny. Am I getting mixed up here?

 

Or my concepts are all wrong?

 

For some reason having upaadhi-s does not sound logical to my mind

since it takes us back for some kaaraNa justifying a particular

upaadhi different from other. On the other hand not having upaadhi-s

would result indistinguishable features as well as the lack of

instruments of knowledge.

 

I need to resolve these in my own mind in self-consistent manner to

have a clear understanding of the concepts involved - I also

understand that some of these questions arise because of my prior

conditioning - as I have it, I do not consider it as a burdon!

 

Too many questions - If you are guessing right, I am focusing my

ignorance to prepare myself when Shreeman Dr. S.M.S. Chari's visit

here.

 

If you are going to be in Washington area around that time (July

16-21) give us a call. We will find you a place for you to enjoy the

Sat Sangh. - He will be in N.J. too after that week and one can take

advantage of his presence there.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

[Guest guest]

In my opinion regarding the significance of avatars... I have a few

points.

 

a) first of all the Chaarvaakas and the atheists would have a free

hand in going around propagating that there is no supernatural force

in the world at all.

 

At a time when science is so advanced and can explain the cause and

effect of so many things they would say that law has taken its own

course and that there was no SuperNatural hand or anything in this at

all.

 

It is the preachings of some saints and Gurus that natural disasters

are a good learning point and eye opener for humanity. They go to

prove how insignificant human life is and how whatever life we lead

is only what is allowed by the supernatural forces and not everything

is under our control.

 

So my first point is that God might have liked to establish the point

that there is a force beyond human cognition and he would like to

prove it from time to time to put down Adharma and humble Asuras who

think they are everything.

 

b) Say some big CEO/President/Boss wants to make an important

announcement ...they prefer to make a public appearance and give a

speech while at other times the entire organisation functions without

seeing the CEO or President etc. They could very well send an email

or circulate a memo but they prefer making a public appearance.

 

When Clinton made an appearance on National t.v. to make a statement

on a mere scandal, to clarify things, why not God make a Avataram to

clarify to people that he is the only one in the whole world that is

sustaining everyone, everything and to uphold Dharma and Vedas and

protect the Sadhus ?

 

c) Thirdly, the Avataras or Leelas should not be considered as

confined to the avataras as Rama or Krishna. Each and every Saint,

Bhakta, Jnaani's life has a purpose and it is a avatara of the Lord

and no one else. This is clear from the lives of great saints like

Chaitanya, Ramanuja, Sankara who's works are not possible by merely

ordinary people. It is the Lord himself who comes down to earth in

simple forms and does all these great things.

 

It is mentioned in the Bhagavatam also that in KaliYuga, there will

be a great number of saints in the Dakshina Bharata near Tamaraparani

river (...no partiality meant here) to carry forward the message of

Bhagavatha Dharma and to establish Bhakti in the hearts of people.

 

By merely recounting the lives of these saints, it is said that it

fosters Bhakti in our minds. There is a very nice stanza from a song

of a great Jnaani of our recent times...

 

"Bhakthi illai endru thallal aagumo

Nin Arul Indri Bhakthi Edhu Ayya ?

 

Jnanadevar Jnaaneshwarar Varisaiyil Naan illai

Avargal Vaibhavathai Smarikkum Jnaanam Undu

 

Adhu Dhaane Un Arulai Petru tharum Endra

Nambikkaiyum enakku undu ...

 

Vittalaa Nee Ennai Kai Vidal Aagumo ? "

 

It says...please dont reject me because I dont have enough

Bhakthi...for without your grace where is Bhakti possible ?

 

I am not of the order of the great saints like Jnaaneshwar or

NaamaDeva...but I have the sense to appreciate and recount the lives

of them (Smaranai)

 

I have heard that this fosters Bhakthi and begets your grace...so

please Vittala ... how can you desert me ?

 

So may be one of the reasons is to foster bhakthi, and the lives of

the saints itself is an example for people.

 

 

d) Finally ...take the incident of the Vaikuntha's Dwaarapaalakas

getting cursed to be born as Asuras in 3 births (Hiranyaksha and

Hiranyakasipu, Ravana and Kumbakarana, and again in Krishna avatara).

 

I have heard in one of Sri Krishna Premi's discourses that the Lord

told them not to be afraid and that he wanted to do Avataras and do

Leelais and he was getting bored and hence this incident of the curse

was also pre-determined by him.

 

Please take this in a lighter-sense as God does not wish anyone to

get separated from him. But he is a "Leela-Rasikan" and likes doing

so many "Adhbuta-Leelais" and dumbfound people. Even in the case of

thse Asuras they were in constant thought of the lord though in

hatred and fear and finally attained to his lotus-feet and died at

his own hands. This has also been referred to as "Dwesha-Bhakthi"

 

So God would come from time to time in various forms to prove to

people and Asuras everyone that everthing and everyone in all the

worlds is sustained by Him alone and he alone is all pervading and

all powerful...and there's no better way to prove this than to make a

presence and do a Avatar/Leelai.

 

Imagine...how difficult it would be for us to do Bhakthi to Lord in a

Nirguna way and how easy it is to recollect Krishna's leelas which

fosters Bhakthi in our minds.

 

These are some of my views why God might have decided to come down

from time to time ...more suggestions/thoughts/feedback are welcome

and would make interesting reading.

 

-- Pradeep

[Guest guest]

Mani Varadarajan wrote:

> I'd rather avoid technical and emotinally charged terms

> such as 'upAya', 'nirhEtuka', 'sahEtuka', 'prapatti', etc.,

> and merely examine the issue using everyday reason.

>

> There is no disagreement that we should never think

> of anything that we do as a *purchase* of God's good

> station. This is the principle of sAttvika tyAga

> or enlightened renunciation enunciated by the Lord

> Himself in the Gita. For nothing we do can be

> considered equal payment to the gifts that God gives

> us. And certainly one who has realized that God alone is

> the Means and the Goal should be even more steadfast in

> this belief. However, to imply that God acts randomly,

> and that such action is at the same time impartial

> from an objective standpoint, does not stand the test

> of reason, nor does it stand up to the careful writing

> of our pUrvAchAryas.

 

My compliments to Sri Mani on his insightful observations. I think part of

the problem is that we tend to look upon "kripa" merely in terms of mOksham.

When taken into a more wholistic concept, and perhaps more in line with those

who see God as the Means and Goal for everything, God's Grace is something

that is there with us all the time, whether or not we aware of it, or whether

or not we choose to accept it. Works like Sri Vachana Bhushanam speak of

this wondrous nature of our Lord who, despite being in His Eternally Joyful

Abode, is restlessly and impatiently struggling to find ways to bring Himself

to the scores of souls that are suffering in the endless cycle of birth and

re-birth, trapped in the struggles of their own self-interested actions.

Such a restless mood drives Him to be there with us in every moment, to guide

us in the right path, share in our our joys and sorrows, and make Himself

visible and accessible to us as the archAvAtharan, all in the hopes that one

day our heart will simply turn to Him. His ever-present and compassionate

natrure is an unceasing and boundless act of His own volition, requiring

nothing on our parts other than to become humble receptacles to it. Our

AchAryans have used the example of the sun in describing this

all-encompassing and boundless nature to Sriman Narayana's Mercy to

illustrate its impartial nature and the ways in which we conditioned souls

respond to it.

 

As we know, the sun is there with us all the time, providing us with the

life-giving energy that we need for our very existence and sustenance. The

sun showers its rays on each and every thing in this world, constantly,

unceasingly, day or night, 24 X 7. It rays go in every direcion and every

part of this solar system without condition. But, based on their natures,

human beings respond to the sun's rays in different ways. Those of us who go

from our climate controlled homes to our air conditioned cars to our climate

controlled offices hardly take note of the sun. Then are those people such

as postal workers and construction workers whose arduous jobs put them in

direct contact with sun. These people often are averse to the sun, and often

are found complaining about the heat that is interfering with their work.

Then are those farmers who depend on the the sun's rays to provide them with

healthy crops. They need the sun at times when it is necessary, at times

that it will be profitable for them. Finally, there are those rare souls who

can simply enjoy the beauty and majesty of a sunny day for what it is,

revelling in its warmth and the tapestry of light and shadows that it

creates. The sun is the same, its rays are the same, so what is it that is

changing? People's responses that are products of their own lifestyle and

experience.

 

Analogous to the rays of the sun, the Lord's Boundless Grace is there for

everyone, everywhere, all the time, and with no other cause or motive other

than His Unconditional Love which seeks to Protect and Save us. What changes

is how choose to respond to it, with apathy, with aversion, with selfish

material interest, or with unconditional acceptance. What is interesting is

that even if we simply take note of it for just a moment, our lives become

blessed.

 

But this does not answer the original question of why Arjuna was chosen over

everyone else to receive the message of the Gita directly from Sri Krishna

Himself. I would like to share my crude understanding of what was taught to

me. But, as this is somewhat involved, I would like to reserve this for

another posting.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mohan

[Guest guest]

Sri. Mohan wrote:

Analogous to the rays of the sun, the Lord's Boundless Grace is

there

> for

> everyone, everywhere, all the time, and with no other cause

or motive

> other

> than His Unconditional Love which seeks to Protect and Save

us. What

> changes

> is how choose to respond to it, with apathy, with aversion,

with selfish

> material interest, or with unconditional acceptance. What is

> interesting is

> that even if we simply take note of it for just a moment, our

lives

> become

> blessed.

>

> But this does not answer the original question of why Arjuna

was chosen

> over

> everyone else to receive the message of the Gita directly

from Sri

> Krishna

> Himself.

 

Dear Sri.Mohan:

 

Pranams! Thanks very much for a lucid posting written with

sound logic in drawing analogy.

 

I have few thoughts in my mind regarding why Arjuna was chosen

as the one to listen to Gita from my understanding.

 

It was the act of refusal of Arjuna to fight with the Kauravas

that lead to this Gita. If we can see the first chapter, all

Arjuna does is , he laments. He was not made up mentally to

fight against his Acharyas. That was when Krishna started with

his teachings.

There is one Avatara Rahasya too in this Gita.

This was told long back by Krishna, as he reiterates this point

in fourth chapter. Again this information is revealed by

Krishna when Arjua asks to Krishna:

 

Oh! Lord Krishna you say that you told about this long back, so

you also assume Body like me everytime you come to earth, I

thought you are Paramathma.

 

Lord Krishna says that He comes with Body, but the major

differnece he says is, Arjuna: Your body is just made up of

Pancha Butha, but my body, rather Thrumeni is made up of vedas.

 

This point again is seen in the Anubavam of Tirumangai Alwar in

TiruNedunthandagam about the Tirumanthiram,

 

inthiraRkum piramaRkum mudhalvan Rannai

irun^ilamkaal theen^eerviN bootham ainthaay,

senthiRattha thamizOsai vadasol laagith

thisain^aan_gu maaytthingaL NYaayi Raagi,

andharatthil dhEvarkkum aRiya laagaa

andhaNanai andhaNarmaat tanthi vaittha

mandhiratthai, mandhiratthaal maRavaa thenRum

vaazhuthiyEl vaazhalaam madan^eNY sammE

 

If we could see the last 3 lines in this pasuram, Alwar gives a

round-about explanation:

 

Andanar's property is nothing but Vedas. Those vedas are

nothing but the elements which whenput together form the

Tirumandiram Sriman.Narayana.

 

I hope to correct my mistakes if there are any. Please point

them out.

 

I still have lot of thoughts on this topic.

 

Thanks,

 

Sri Ramanuja Dasan,

Ramanan Rajagopalan

-------------------------------

iruppidam vaikundham vEnkatam * mAlirunchOlaiyennum

poruppidam mAyanuk enbar nallOr * avai thannodum van

thiruppidam mAyan irAmAnusan manathinRavan van

thiruppidam * enRan idhayaththuLLE thanakkinpuRavE.

-------------------------------

 

 

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