neo-sadhus

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Pradeep,

 

You wrote:

 

It is my opinion that "Guru" :

1) is NOT a Profession -> like I was a lawyer/doctor/engineer and now

I am a guru from tomorrow and get paid for my services / discourses/

consultation

 

2) is NOT a Post -> like I was a vice-chancellor and now I became a

Chancellor by some process say experience or recommendation,

seniority whatever.

 

To me it seems logical that "Guru" is a state that someone attains to

by the grace of god and is sent by God and is God himself in a human

form. Please correct my views if I am wrong.

 

But when such glory is to be attributed to a Guru...how does one

distinguish the true one from the rest.

 

Its a thought that I have been having and request opinions & feedback

from the other Bhagavathas of the group who might from their

experience and knowledge can shed some light on this for the benefit

of those who are in search of a true Guru for spiritual guidance.

 

-- pradeep

==============================================================

Gu+ru- one who dispells darkness; ignorance.

 

Swamy Desikan describes the greatest qualities of AchArya in nyAsavimsati

slOkA 1:

 

1.Sound philosophical jnAnam obtained (learnt) through the greatest lineage

of his AchAryAs

2.Having an undisputed clear knowledge on sAsthrAs;

3.Free from any sins and attachments;

4.Complete knowledge of Vedas, its subsidiaries and ithihAsAs

5.Deep unshakable faith in Brahman (Almighty- unsurpassed unparalleled

Sriya: Pathi Sriman Narayanan)

6.possesses sAtvic guNA;

7.Always speaks truth

8.lives in accordance with the manner laid down in sAsthrAs;

9.free from jealousy, show etc..

10. having control over sense organs

11.friendly and affectionate towards all;

12.Compassionate towards all;

13.helps the disciples who err, correct them and make them follow right

track as laid down in sAsthrAs

14.wishes for everyones welfare at all times.

 

The greatness of our Srivaishnavam is that we not only show respect and pay

obeisance to our prakritam (present) AchArya, also to the entire lineage of

AchAryas, right upto the Lord. The thaniyan (dedicatory verse) of our

AchArya and thaose of his predecessors, are to be recited by every

srivaishnava. It is not only in paying respect to the glory of these

AchAryAs, also to show our gratitude for what GREAT service rendered by

them

to our srivaishnava sampradAyam, by way of disseminating through granthas

and kAlakshEbams.

 

Swamy Desikan describes this very movingly:

 

yERRi manatthu yezhil jnAna viLakkai iruLanaitthum-

mARRinavarkku oru kaimmARu mAyanum kANagillAn

pORRiugappathum pundhiyiR koLvadhum, pongupugazh-

sARRivaLarppathum saRRallavOmunnam peRRadhaRkkE.

 

To the One who has lit the lamp of jnAnam (knowledge) (in us) and dispelled

the darkness from our minds, there is nothing (no way ) even the Lord can

do

to repay (for what the AChArya has done). Praising such AchAryan and

telling

about his greatness to others, spreading his name, glories, continuously

will be like an infinitesimal portion for what He has done. (saRRu - iota)

(since it is only so small, why should I do? should not be our comment

please).

 

Sri maNavALa mAmunigaL in his upadEsaratthinamAlai says

 

"jnAnam anuttAnam ivai nanRAgavE udaiya

nAna, guruvai adaindhakkAl - mAnilatthIr!

thEnAr kamalatth thirumAmagaL kozhunan

thAnE vaikuntham tharum."

 

When one takes refuge at an AchAryan (Guru), who is the great

personification of jnAnam and anshtAnam, oh folks! the Lord Sriya: Pathi

Sriman Narayanan will grant mOksham.

 

He also stresses that if one wishes to get saved, place your mind (and

yourself) at the feet of your AchAryan.

 

Swamy Vedanta Desikan concludes the Nyasa vimsati with a gist of how he was

led to

prapatti, and how he lives his life as a prapanna after performing

prapatti.

This concluding Slokam is included as part of the nitya-anushandhAnam at

the

end of the nyAsa daSakam which is recited during the nitya

bhagavad-ArAdhanam.

 

samSArAvarta vega praSamana Subha-dr*k deSika prekshito'ham

samtyakto'nyairupAyair-anucita cariteshvadya SAntAbhisabshih |

niS-Sankhah tatvat-dr*shtyA niravadhika dayam prArthya samrakshakam

tvAm nysya tat-pAda padme varada nija-bharam nir-bharo nir-bhayo'smi ||

 

"I chose a good AcArya who could instruct me on how to get out of the whirl

of samsAra, and had his divya kaTAksha. Because of the AcArya's teachings,

I obtained the knowledge that could help me analyze and understand the

difficulty of bhakti yoga and the realization that prapatti is the only

recourse open to me, which I could perform easily, and attain the desired

moksham by performing it once and only once. I learnt the facts about

prapatti and so had no doubt whatsoever about its efficacy. I sought

refuge

of peraruLALan with pirATTi as the sole refuge who could protect me. I

surrendered all responsibility for my protection at the feet of peraruLALan

and performed prapatti at His feet. Since I am now living the life of a

prapanna, I feel completely relieved of all responsibility for my self from

that point. Since all my acts from that point on have been directed to

only

kaimkaryam for bhagavAn, there is nothing more to fear about any

accumulation of karma. So I continue to lead a life of nishkAmya

kaimkaryam

to bhagavAn while spending the rest of my life in this world, and deriving

infinite happiness from it".

 

Trust it answers your queryas to how and where to find the Acharya (Guru)..

what are his qualities..

Regards

Narayana Narayana

adiyEn Narayana dAsan madhavakkannan

[Guest guest]

Dear Pradeep: You are raising

a very important question the answer to

which will save one from chasing the wrong Gurus

and wasting one's time and ruining one's

expectations."Marry in haste and repent at

leisure " has to be avoided at all costs

in the matter of choice of One's AchAryan.

Neo-Sadhus are dime a dozen.

 

On the other hand , There are living

examples of SadAchAryans ( True perceptors )

existing today at many parts of India

and guiding their disciples with

great affection and competence.

Their standards are very high in

selecting a Sishyan .

 

Let me comment further:

 

At 06:43 AM 6/27/01 -0000, you wrote:

>I have a request to the group.

>

>In this age where there are a lot of new people who make tall claims

>that they are God's incarnation and also have some following, in

>addition to some mystical powers that they exhibit sometimes, how

>does one go about culling out the wrong ones ?

 

Yes, You are right about all kinds of fake gurus

claiming all kinds of accomplishments and offering

all too easy solutions to a serious searcher.

 

One has to cull them out by questioning their

Jn~Anam , VairAgyam and anushtAnam and the paramparai

that they come form . True gurus do not go after

sishyans like collecting victory points. The true

sishyans come to them thru Bahgavan's grace.

 

Excellent descriptions of Who is a true Guru

and what his qualifications are have been

described precisely in Swamy Desikan's

Sri NyAsa Vimsathi SlOkams 1-4.

 

The qualifications of a True AchAryan ,

a true Sishyan and their relationships

are beautifully described in these

four verses.

 

In today's scene , I can identify a few

AchAryans , who live up to these demanding

requirements and come to the rescue of their

sishyAs. Yes, they do exist.I am fortunate to

have one such great SdaachAryan as My perceptor

and every thing.

>

>Is it possible to create an awareness or post like true candid

>reviews/experiences whereby someone who wants to choose a guru gets

>atleast some idea & info on whom to rely/trust and so on, atleast

>whom to avoid ?

>

Yes.The tests again are Knowledge about ShAsthrAs,

AachAram , anushtAnam , the lineage they come

from and their VairAgyam .

>It is my opinion that "Guru" :

>1) is NOT a Profession -> like I was a lawyer/doctor/engineer and now

>I am a guru from tomorrow and get paid for my services / discourses/

>consultation

>

>2) is NOT a Post -> like I was a vice-chancellor and now I became a

>Chancellor by some process say experience or recommendation,

>seniority whatever.

>

>To me it seems logical that "Guru" is a state that someone attains to

>by the grace of god and is sent by God and is God himself in a human

>form. Please correct my views if I am wrong.

 

No, You are absolutely correct in your

descriptions.The AchAryan is indeed

the God on earth.

>

>But when such glory is to be attributed to a Guru...how does one

>distinguish the true one from the rest.

 

Through the help of others , who have searched in

vain and found their true Guru.

 

V.Sadagopan

[Guest guest]

Pradeep,

 

You bring up some very relevant issues. Part of the

solution is to be vigilant in using your mind at all

times, and to see whether the proposed acharya or guru

is really making sense and is consistent. Often we

find ourselves attracted to people for emotional reasons.

Sometimes these emotions cloud our judgment until

it's too late to discern reality from illusion.

 

Second, the acharya or guru should exhibit true and

consistent values, as the messages of Sri Madhavakkannan

and Sri Sadagopan Maama have demonstrated. I would like

to build upon their contribution.

 

In my opinion one of the chief means of distinguishing

a true guru from one who is not is how much they chase

after money, either directly or indirectly. We find

so many people who are in the position of acharya/guru

these days asking for money every chance they get. They

may cloak this in different ways, but in the end it's

just a request for money. Usually, the money guru's

followers rationalize that because the omniscient master

simply *must* have some noble purpose in mind, everything

is okay.

 

In this regard, we may heed Swami Desika's words of seven

centuries ago, which ring remarkably prophetic:

 

Alas! Observe the "renunciation" of the kali-yuga sannyasis

who bear the saffron robes and holy staff in name only:

 

"For bhiksha, and for taking care of my disciples,", they say;

"Merely for my robes, and for erecting a permanent roof over my

monastery," they say;

"To pay for the purchase of books," they say;

though sannyasis, they are possessed by their desire

for money.

 

Now Swami Desika would be the first to argue that guru-dakshiNa

is of vital importance and that one should give to one's guru

as much as possible; for no payment can be equal the value of

a guru-sishya relationship. But the question is -- does the guru

himself demand money early and often? If so, watch out.

 

aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

mani

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Pradeep and friends:

As an addendum to the excellent guidelines of Sri Mnai, I reproduce below

the concluding paragraph of my book "Oh! My God!" now being serialized in

"sri Kanchi Perarulalan" religious monthly in India.

 

Also, reproduced are a few lines from my article on Srimad Andavan of

Poundarikapuram Swami Ashramam on the occasion of his recently concluded

Sathabishekam celebrations.

 

I hope these will help in your quest for a true and reliable Acharya.

Dasoham

Anbil Ramaswamy

========================================================================

>From "Oh! My God!"

 

" The acid test of real spiritual leaders is that they never project

themselves as 'somebody', never show off their powers of Siddhis, never

indulge in magic, never seek after disciples and never presume to

indoctrinate others. They withdraw into seclusion, practice their Dharmic

duties unostentatiously in humble dedication to God, shun publicity and are

content to be inconspicuous, selective in choosing only deserving students

who would follow their own code of conduct before imparting to them the

eternal truths. They have to be 'searched for and sought after' than their

'searching, scanning and scheming'. They do not hanker after name or fame,

are prepared to pass into oblivion 'Unsung. Un-honoured, Unwept' by the mere

mortals because their minds and vision are truly fixated on the

transcendental reality".

>From the article mentioned above:

"Srimad Andavan of Poundarikapuram Swami Ashramam answers precisely to the

above description:

* To this day, in the matter of discipline, he is absolutely and

uncompromisingly strict on himself and those who approach him.

* To this day, he has lived almost always in Srirangam.

* To this day, he had never sought after name or fame.

* To this day, he never went out soliciting Sishyas.

* To this day, he has never failed to impart true knowledge to genuine

seekers who seek his advice.

* To this day, he has lived in seclusion SILENTLY meditating on

the Lord.

* He is blind to others' faults; deaf to scandals; mute in the sense

of avoiding vain talk.

 

Living in the 21st century, he still upholds the old-world values.

Strict on himself, he is practical enough to understand the

predicament of common folk like us. He offers sensible and really

"sage" advice on the appropriate "modus operandi" to reconcile the

great time-divide and space-divide to prove how even in the so

called present circumstances and the much touted modern day

compulsions, one can and should practice Srivaishnavam.

 

He is the one who can advise exactly where "relaxation ends and

where repugnance starts" in observing "anushTAnams" for us (who seek

to excuse ourselves on grounds of being away from our mainland and away from

the values of yore).Thus, the words "Muni" and "Guru" just fit him well.

 

He is the Senior most of all Prakritam yathivaras of Bhagavad

RamAnuja-Swami Desika SathsampradAyam both in point of age and

assumption of the ascetic order (Ashrama sweekaraNam), which latter

is the criterion for determining the seniority among them. He is not

only a fitting successor to the glorious lineage of the

PounDarikapuram Ashramam but also a role model for all other

yathivaras, in the matter of his superb "AtmaguNas".

 

No wonder, he is hailed verily as "VasishTa" among them and held

in very high esteem by all. The fact that all yathivaras of our

SathsampradAyam are congregating to celebrate his SathAbhishEkam

"speaks" volumes about this "silent" MunisrEshTa.

 

VADOOLA GOTRAM:

You will remember that a while ago, I had mentioned about the glory

of "Naitrava KAsyapa" GOtram and how the word "MADabhoosi", became a

variant form of "MAtrubhooshaNam" which the famed "Naitrava KAsyapa"

Rishi was. Every GOtram has its own unique glory.

 

I have heard in Kalakshepams that the uniqueness of `VAdoola GOtram"

is that those belonging to it are such `Viraktas" that they never ask

for any favors, much less any pecuniary favors from anyone, however

dire their circumstances may be. Their palm when outstretched is

always "down-facing" (signifying giving) and never "up-facing"

(signifying receiving). This mahAn belongs to this "VAdoola GOtram".

 

He never asks for anything either for himself or even for any

kainkaryams he undertakes or even for running the Ashramam. If

Sishyas or AbhimAnis offer any genuine and voluntary help, he accepts

them only after making sure of the intention behind the offer and accepts it

regarding it as "Bhagavad anugraham". His rectitude can be seen in how

personally and scrupulously he monitors that assistance

received in this manner is spent precisely for the purpose for which

it is received from the donors".

=======================================================================

 

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani Varadarajan :

 

After a great deal of sorrow & anguish arising from

Your recent note on "neo-Saadhus" that included

passages from Sankalpa SooryOdhayam to develop

Your untenable position , I am writing to you

to stay away from the temptation of penning such

misleading notes as responses . I do not relish

public display of emotions. When one's AchAryan

is attacked however , one does not have much of

a choice.Your AchAryan will take the same position ,

when it comes to putting up with AchArya Nindhanai

intended or otherwise.

 

Here are the points:

 

At 08:43 PM 7/2/01 -0700, you wrote:

>Second, the acharya or guru should exhibit true and

>consistent values, as the messages of Sri Madhavakkannan

>and Sri Sadagopan Maama have demonstrated. I would like

>to build upon their contribution.

 

What I commented on , has no bearing on the points that

You are developing below. You are giving an unfortunately

distorted and almost malicious account of some of

the present day AchAryAs of Sri VaishNavite SampradhAyam

in general and my AchAryan in particular . Your comments

are distasteful to say the least and does not sit well

with many people , who have called me and expressed

their anger . I would like to distance myself

from your remarks on how to calibrate an AchAryan ,

since I do not agree with them.I would rather celebrate

MY ACHAARYAN with all "emotions" rather than

calibrate Him . He is nadamAdum dhaivam for me

AND ALL HIS SISHYA KOTIS . Please do not enter

into these areas with impunity.

 

Your quotation of Swamy Desikan's Sri Sookthi passage

from Sankalpa SuryOdhayam is not at all relevant and

is most unfortunate . You are mouthing the quotation

of another curent day AchAryan . I am not happy over

your remarks.

 

FYI , a SadAchAryans does not "chase after money " for their

personal gratification or advancemnet . They are not like

the different Maharishis who have a staple of Rolls Royce

and travel first class and have their headquarters

in Cozy Swizerland . They are not like the members of

the pop musical groups , who go to air conditioned

villas of "neo-sadhus" in HimAlayAs to cram

in one week the intricacies of raaja yOgam

and return "fulfilled" . A sadAchAryan has

devoted years of his life under another SadAchAryan

studying SaasthrAs and practises rigorous

anushtAnam and instructs others on the lofty

standards that he has inherited .They spurn

wealth for its own sake. They deflect the samarpaNams

for Bhagaavth-BhAgavatha, Grantha-nirmANa ,

Vedha PaatasAlA , anna dhAnam and other

adhyAthmic kaimkaryams .

 

At an advanced age , my own revered AchAryan

puts up with an immoral government stealing the

lands donated for Bhagavath kaimkaryam ; Inspite of

His physical fraility , demanding anushtAnam ,

He travels tirelessly from village to village

throughout the entire length of Bhaaratha Desam

as commanded by Sri Lakshmi Narasimhan some six hundred

years ago.He has no choice. He has immense responsibilities

as the head of a Matam with 12 devasthAnams and 50

branches and hosts of kainkarya parALs , who depend

on Him for their livelihood. Sitting here and making

frivolous coments is repugnant to me.Few matAdhipathis

have similar awesome rsponsibilities that my AchAryan has .

 

It is not fair to judge them without any understanding

of their complex responsibilities. This is not a subject

for Bhakthi List . We can certainly talk about

the qualifications of a SadAchAryan but not in this

casual , cavalier and insensitive manner.

>You wrote further:

>In my opinion one of the chief means of distinguishing

>a true guru from one who is not is how much they chase

>after money, either directly or indirectly. We find

>so many people who are in the position of acharya/guru

>these days who ask for money every chance they get. Often,

>followers rationalize that because the omniscient guru

>simply *must* have some noble purpose in mind, everything

>is okay.

>

>In this regard, we may heed Swami Desika's words of seven

>centuries ago, which ring remarkably prophetic:

>

> Alas! Observe the "renunciation" of the kali-yuga sannyasis

> who bear the saffron robes and holy staff in name only:

>

> "For bhiksha, and for taking care of my disciples,", they say;

> "Merely for my robes, and for erecting a permanent roof over my

> monastery," they say;

> "To pay for the purchase of books," they say;

> though sannyasis, they are possessed by their desire

> for money.

>

>Now Swami Desika would be the first to argue that guru-dakshiNa

>is of vital importance and that one should give to one's guru

>as much as possible; for no payment can be equal the value of

>a guru-sishya relationship. But the question is -- does the guru

>himself demand money early and often? If so, watch out.

 

These words are like NaarAsam for my ears and

that of all fellow sishyAs of our matam. We can not

accept any innuendo directed at our AchAryan , whose

Vaathsalyam and MahOpakAram is limitless. Please cease

and desist from such poor remarks , which are totally

unwarranted.

 

Please de me form the Bhakthi List , if

you feel that my remarks are not just.

 

V.Sadagopan

July 4, 2001.

[Guest guest]

Sri:

Sri Ramanujaya namah:

Sri Nigamahantha Desikaya Namah:

Sri Lakshmi Narasimha Paramatmane parabrahmane namah:

 

Dear Pradeep,

 

To begin with, As u said getting the right Guru is

very difficult.

 

But if u are truly devoted and with full heart throng

to find a Guru, The supreme, almighty , mercifull, the

one filled with kalyana Guna, the parabrahman,

Narayana

himself will show u the way to the right guru.

 

In certain circumstances he has even sent his most

beloved ones to enlighten his devotees. to quote u

could see that Sri Garuda was sent to enlighten the

great acharya Swami desikan.

 

Secondly , one can attain full spiritual knowledge

only when one has full faith and devotion to his guru,

so once u have chosen a guru , do not suspect him on

his level of knowledge.

 

third, choose a guru based on the lineage they come

from, a guru is a person who comes from a particular

lineage carrying forward the customs and knowledge of

that particular lineage to the forth coming

generations.

 

A person who does not belong to a particular lineage ,

can never be a guru.

 

 

Sri:

Adiyen

Sridhar.S