Guest guest Posted July 2, 2001 Report Share Posted July 2, 2001 adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan. anantha pranAmama to all bhAgavathAs. I am told that vaikanasa srivaishnava do not undergo panchasamskara. The archakas in tirumala also belong to to the same sect / cult. Can some one through more light about the vaikanasa srivaishnava sampradaya. Is it different from emberumanar darisanam? dasan Suderson ===== s v suderson Volvo, Bangalore Get personalized email addresses from Mail http://personal.mail./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2001 Report Share Posted July 6, 2001 suderson writes: > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan. > anantha pranAmama to all bhAgavathAs. > I am told that vaikanasa srivaishnava do not undergo > panchasamskara. The archakas in tirumala also belong > to to the same sect / cult. > Can some one through more light about the vaikanasa > srivaishnava sampradaya. Is it different from > emberumanar darisanam? > dasan > Suderson Dear Suderson, You are correct -- vaikhAnasa vaishnavas are not formally affiliated with the tradition of Ramanuja. They also do not follow the pAncarAtra Agama which dictate the ritual of samASrayaNam or panca-samskAra. As their name indicates, they follow the vaikhAnasa Agama, which is a different set of Vaishnava ritual texts. The vaikhAnasa Vaishnavas trace their guru-paramparA to Vikhanas Muni. In fact, in the place of 'SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH' which is characteristic of all Sri Vaishnava correspondence, they typically write 'SrImate vikhano munaye namaH' (or some variant). Their doctrines claim origin from Atri, Bhrigu, Kasyapa, and Marici, four rishis who according to their texts were taught directly by Vikhanas Muni, an incarnation of Vishnu. The vaikhAnasa Vaishnavas are strictly hereditary -- one must be born (or adopted) into a vaikhAnasa family to be considered a vaikhAnasa Vaishnava. As you are aware, the pAncarAtric rite of panca-samskAra establishes a formal link between the initiate and an acharya of the tradition of Ramanuja. The vaikhanasas as stated above do not have such a ritual, and do not formally have a connection with Ramanuja. However, while they are not branded with the insignia of Vishnu, they believe that Vishnu himself comes to the womb in the third month of pregnancy and brands the child with the sankha and cakra. This is known as 'garbha-samskAra' and is dictated once again by the vaikhAnasa texts. The vaikhAnasa texts are overwhelmingly concerned with the details of temple ritual and largely do not contain philosophy. Most of the philosophical teachings are similar to the pAncarAtra, including a parallel five-fold manifestation of Vishnu. They also have a notion of the 'nishkala' form of Vishnu -- the formless, primeval Vishnu which is perceived only by the highest of yogis and which is beyond even Brahma -- and the 'sakala' form, which is figured, divisible, and emanated. It is in this form that Vishnu responds to devotion and meditation. There is also 'sakala-nishkala' combination of the two, which is found in the sAlagrAma. (These details may also exist in some pAncarAtra texts). People often confuse vaikhAnasas with Sri Vaishnavas because of their similar outward resemblance. While the vaikhAnasas are strict vaishnavas, they do not revere the Alvars and they do not even follow Ramanuja's Sribhashya the same way we do. Many people also assume that the Tirumalai temple (Tiruvengadam) is a Sri Vaishnava shrine. In fact, the shrine is a vaikhAnasa one with strong Sri Vaishnava association, but is not really a Sri Vaishnava shrine. Due to the influence of Periya Tirumalai Nambi (uncle of Ramanuja), Ramanuja, Tirumalai Anandaan Pillai, the Sri Vaishnava influence increased over the years. The shrine took a more pAncarAtric tilt (more festivals, recitation of Alvar paasurams, etc.) after the utsava mUrti of Lord Ranganatha took refuge along with the Srirangam priests in the 13th century. The cross-pollenation has led to the mixture of vaikhAnasa with Sri Vaishnava touches we have today. Note that there are no shrines to the Alvars on Tirumalai beyond the dhvaja stambham, and even the shrine to Ramanuja is a rather late one. Apparently the vaikhAnasa Agamas do not permit the installation of idols of human beings inside their temples. The shrine to Ramanuja is a remarkable exception. Tirumalai is the purest example of a vaikhAnasa temple we have today. There are many other vaikhAnasa temples in Tamil Nadu and elsewhere, (Tiruvallikkeni, and Vaanamaamalai for example) but most of them have been significantly influenced by pAncarAtra practices due to the surrounding Sri Vaishnava community, so much so that the temples are virtually indistinguishable from pAncarAtra temples in style (the rituals may vary somewhat). In addition, many temples that were once vaikhAnasa were converted to pAncarAtra during Ramanuja's days, mostly because of a more liberal ritualistic attitude. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, Mani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 Thanx for the lucid expression. I have a humble submission. I differ from your views on one issue. How can we not call the Vaikhanasa as "strictly speaking, they are not sri vaishnavas"? They are 100% sri vaishnavas!! May not be ramAnusanadiyAr. The ritual of panchasamskara started later,as some construe. Though, there is reference to samashrayanam in Thiruppallandu of PeriyAlwar, there seem not to be evidence of this in the older epics. Thirumalai Nambi - Was he a Vaikhanasa or not? If no, then how did he live as the priest at Thirumalai. Or was he a smArtha, since he is the maternal uncleof Swami Ramanuja (who was born in Smartha lineage as we allknow). Can anyone please clarify? --- Mani Varadarajan <mani wrote: > suderson writes: > > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan. > > anantha pranAmama to all bhAgavathAs. > > I am told that vaikanasa srivaishnava do not > undergo > > panchasamskara. The archakas in tirumala also > belong > > to to the same sect / cult. > > Can some one through more light about the > vaikanasa > > srivaishnava sampradaya. Is it different from > > emberumanar darisanam? > > dasan > > Suderson > > Dear Suderson, > > You are correct -- vaikhAnasa vaishnavas are not > formally > affiliated with the tradition of Ramanuja. They > also do not > follow the pAncarAtra Agama which dictate the ritual > of > samASrayaNam or panca-samskAra. As their name > indicates, they > follow the vaikhAnasa Agama, which is a different > set of > Vaishnava ritual texts. The vaikhAnasa Vaishnavas > trace > their guru-paramparA to Vikhanas Muni. In fact, in > the place > of 'SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH' which is > characteristic of > all Sri Vaishnava correspondence, they typically > write > 'SrImate vikhano munaye namaH' (or some variant). > Their > doctrines claim origin from Atri, Bhrigu, Kasyapa, > and > Marici, four rishis who according to their texts > were > taught directly by Vikhanas Muni, an incarnation of > Vishnu. The vaikhAnasa Vaishnavas are strictly > hereditary -- > one must be born (or adopted) into a vaikhAnasa > family to be > considered a vaikhAnasa Vaishnava. > > As you are aware, the pAncarAtric rite of > panca-samskAra > establishes a formal link between the initiate and > an acharya > of the tradition of Ramanuja. The vaikhanasas as > stated above > do not have such a ritual, and do not formally have > a connection > with Ramanuja. However, while they are not branded > with the > insignia of Vishnu, they believe that Vishnu himself > comes > to the womb in the third month of pregnancy and > brands the > child with the sankha and cakra. This is known as > 'garbha-samskAra' > and is dictated once again by the vaikhAnasa texts. > > The vaikhAnasa texts are overwhelmingly concerned > with > the details of temple ritual and largely do not > contain > philosophy. Most of the philosophical teachings are > similar > to the pAncarAtra, including a parallel five-fold > manifestation > of Vishnu. They also have a notion of the > 'nishkala' form > of Vishnu -- the formless, primeval Vishnu which is > perceived > only by the highest of yogis and which is beyond > even Brahma -- > and the 'sakala' form, which is figured, divisible, > and emanated. > It is in this form that Vishnu responds to devotion > and meditation. > There is also 'sakala-nishkala' combination of the > two, which is > found in the sAlagrAma. (These details may also > exist in some > pAncarAtra texts). > > People often confuse vaikhAnasas with Sri Vaishnavas > because > of their similar outward resemblance. While the > vaikhAnasas > are strict vaishnavas, they do not revere the Alvars > and they do not > even follow Ramanuja's Sribhashya the same way we > do. Many people > also assume that the Tirumalai temple (Tiruvengadam) > is a Sri Vaishnava > shrine. In fact, the shrine is a vaikhAnasa one > with strong > Sri Vaishnava association, but is not really a Sri > Vaishnava shrine. > Due to the influence of Periya Tirumalai Nambi > (uncle of Ramanuja), > Ramanuja, Tirumalai Anandaan Pillai, the Sri > Vaishnava influence > increased over the years. The shrine took a more > pAncarAtric tilt > (more festivals, recitation of Alvar paasurams, > etc.) after the utsava > mUrti of Lord Ranganatha took refuge along with the > Srirangam priests > in the 13th century. The cross-pollenation has led > to the mixture of > vaikhAnasa with Sri Vaishnava touches we have today. > > Note that there are no shrines to the Alvars on > Tirumalai beyond the > dhvaja stambham, and even the shrine to Ramanuja is > a rather > late one. Apparently the vaikhAnasa Agamas do not > permit the > installation of idols of human beings inside their > temples. The > shrine to Ramanuja is a remarkable exception. > > Tirumalai is the purest example of a vaikhAnasa > temple we have today. > There are many other vaikhAnasa temples in Tamil > Nadu and elsewhere, > (Tiruvallikkeni, and Vaanamaamalai for example) but > most of them have > been significantly influenced by pAncarAtra > practices due to the > surrounding Sri Vaishnava community, so much so that > the temples > are virtually indistinguishable from pAncarAtra > temples in style > (the rituals may vary somewhat). In addition, many > temples that > were once vaikhAnasa were converted to pAncarAtra > during Ramanuja's > days, mostly because of a more liberal ritualistic > attitude. > > aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, > Mani > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: > bhakti-list > Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Messenger http://phonecard./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2001 Report Share Posted August 2, 2001 Dear Suderson, Your argument is a good one, but it appears we are disputing the definition of "SrI vaishnava". "SrI vaishNava" typically means one who belongs to the acharya-paramparA of Bhagavad Ramanuja -- lakshminAtha samArambhAm, nAtha-yAmuna madhyamAm, etc. The followers of this tradition are known as Ubhaya Vedanta pravartakas, since they believe in the unity in meaning of the Sanskrit Vedanta as well as the Dravida or Tamil Vedanta. Based on this definition, vaikhAnasa VaishNavas cannot be called "SrI vaishNavas" since they neither have Sri Ramanuja in their acharya-paramparA nor do they rever the Alvars and the Divya Prabandham. Periya Thirumalai Nambi was a pAncarAtra vaishNava of the tradition of Sri Yamunacharya. This community is what is now known as SrI vaishNava. He was not a vaikhAnasa. His role in Tirumalai was distinctly not that of a temple priest. Rather, if I recall correctly, he performed pushpa and tIrtha kainkaryam to Lord Srinivasa on his own volition. aDiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, Mani suderson writes: > Thanx for the lucid expression. I have a humble > submission. > I differ from your views on one issue. How can we not > call the Vaikhanasa as "strictly speaking, they are > not sri vaishnavas"? They are 100% sri vaishnavas!! > May not be ramAnusanadiyAr. > The ritual of panchasamskara started later,as some > construe. Though, there is reference to samashrayanam > in Thiruppallandu of PeriyAlwar, there seem not to be > evidence of this in the older epics. > Thirumalai Nambi - Was he a Vaikhanasa or not? If no, > then how did he live as the priest at Thirumalai. Or > was he a smArtha, since he is the maternal uncleof > Swami Ramanuja (who was born in Smartha lineage as we > allknow). > Can anyone please clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2001 Report Share Posted August 16, 2001 --- suderson <suderson wrote: > Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:37:25 -0700 (PDT) > suderson <suderson > Reply-to: suderson > Re: Vaikanasa srivaishnava > K Balaji <kbalaji > > adiyEn beg pardon from the bhagavathAs. > I wish to state that I am still searching somer > explanation for my querries. May be learned scholars > like srimAn sadagopan or thru the blessings of > eminent > authorities like SrimAn U Ve Bhuvarahachariar or Sri > Rangapriya Swmami can the group find response to be > querries? > adiyEn rAmAnsadAsan > Suerson > --- K Balaji <kbalaji wrote: > > Dear Bhaktas, > > > > The onging discussion on sri vaishanvas based on > > Vaikanasa and PAnchrAtra > > findings are interesting. But I have few > > observations in this regard. The > > Madhwas (Dwaitha philosphy followers) also worship > > Vishnu as the Supreme God > > but do not give place/significance to Mahalaxmi ( > > periya pirati) as Sri > > vaishnavas do. That is why Sri is prefixed to > > differentiate Sri Vaishnavas > > ( one who always worship Vishnu along with > > Mahalaxmi) to pure Vaishnavas > > only vishnu worshippers). So mostly after Sri > > Madhwacharya period the > > difference must be surfaced for distinguishing the > > sect/cult. > > > > Namo Naryanaya > > > > Adiyen > > > > Balaji K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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