Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 This mail is to record my views in response to the mail sent by TA venkatesh regarding the quote "agniravamo devatanam vishnu: parama:". A better explanation will be as : agni is the nearest of the devatA-s to us, and vishNu is the farthest (taittirIya samhitA 5.5.1). The importance of agni in the vedas can be understood from the number of rituals which are done wherein agni serves as the communicator between the human and the devatas. This includes the marriage of the perumal with thayar in the temples in the presence of Agni. The "CHAMAKAM" prasnam in TaittirIya Samhita, which is a prayer requesting for many things for us, starts with an invocation to Agni & vishnu. This term "Agnavishnu" is quite often used in the vedas. Also, of all the devatas agni is the Pratyaksha one, rest fall under the category of Paroksha. When performing a ritual, we pour the ghee into the fire so that it can reach other devatas. A basic question arises here as to how the small amount of ghee is sufficient for the devatas. Herein, comes the might of agni who transforms it into the amount required by the devatas. This can be substantiated by the fact that the earth provides a huge amount of grain when a grain is sown in it. Prithvi evolved from appu which inturn evolved from Agni. Thus when earth can convert one into many, the agni also does the same thing for the devatas. Though PUNARAADHEYAM needs to be done for Agni on a periodic basis, it is HE who helps us to establish links with other devatas. The vedas by themselves doesn't make any decisions on the superiority of one devata over the other. The role of each devata and the way of approaching them are well defined. There were also mention about Devasura wars wherein the devatas were defeated by asuras and viceversa. The role of Agni can never be undermined and it was very much hurting to read such a misinterpretaion of texts. Venkatakrishnan. _______________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Srimathe Ramanujaya namaha Dear Sri Venkatakrishnan, What I wrote is what I read from some of the poorvAchArya vyAkhyAnams as quoted by Sri Puttur Krishnaswamy Iyengar in his books like 1) Vishnuchitta vijayam, 2) Sankararum VaiNavamum etc., Please note that while it says that Agni is the lowest, it does not impart any disregards to the role of Agni in our SampradhAyam. But what made our poorvAchAryAs to comment like this? Adiyen does not know really. However, you opened that question for me and I will try and find out the reason. However, there are many scholars in this list who can throw light as to why such a vyAkhyAnam is made. However I beg to differ from your views that vEdAs does not talk about the supremacy of any devata. The same verse says that " paramO vishNu". What is the meaning of the word "paramO"? Does it mean farthest. No. It clearly conveys the meaning that vishNu is the para brahman (Supreme Being). Naturally the opposite word to paramO is avamO. So the interpretation is right. But what made our poorvAchAryAs to interpret in such way is the question. I have quoted some verses in my postings from vEdAs which clearly talks about the supremacy of VishNu. Sri Vijayaraghavan Bhashyam had also quoted may verses from the vEdAs which uphold the supremacy of VishNu. Then how can it be considered that the vEdAs do not talk about superiority of any dEvata. Also your interpretation tries to mislead. What is the scale in which the nearest or the farthest is measured. Adiyen does not agree to the fact that Vishnu is the farthest. Just go thro our beloved Azhwars divya prabhandams for more references. 1) patthudai adiyavarkku eLiyavan...., 2) engum uLan kaNNan.... and many more. These are only a very little examples. That Sriman Narayanan is every pervading and omnipresent was very clearly proved by Sri Prahaladha and that is the no. 2 example written above. So how can he be the farthest. Finally, whose interpretation is what you wrote ( Agni is the nearest and Vishnu is the farthest). adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh Enjoy being an Indyan at http://www.indya.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Namaskaaram. That any particular Deva/Devata is supreme appears in many places in the Samhita mantras for many Devas/Devataas. Typically, a Rik devoted to a Deva/Devataa declares THAT Deva/Devataa as supreme. Ancient Nyaaya shaastrakaaras have justified this by invoking "nahinindaa nyaaya" - that One is Supreme does not mean a degradation of any other. When a devotee or aspirant sees Truth through his/her chosen naama-roopa, he/she is free to praise and surrender to That chosen One. This is buttressed by the well-quoted Rik of meaning something like: Sat (the fundamental unmanifest substratum) is One, the knowers of the Vedas speak (of It) as agni, yamam, maatarishwaan... This in no way is like the Semitic tradition of condemning anything other than the chosen one. BhavadIyaH, -Shambhu vinjamoorvenkat wrote: > > Srimathe Ramanujaya namaha > > Dear Sri Venkatakrishnan, > > What I wrote is what I read from some of the poorvAchArya vyAkhyAnams > as quoted by Sri Puttur Krishnaswamy Iyengar in his books like 1) > Vishnuchitta vijayam, 2) Sankararum VaiNavamum etc., > > Please note that while it says that Agni is the lowest, it does not > impart any disregards to the role of Agni in our SampradhAyam. > > But what made our poorvAchAryAs to comment like this? Adiyen does not > know really. However, you opened that question for me and I will try > and find out the reason. However, there are many scholars in this > list who can throw light as to why such a vyAkhyAnam is made. > > However I beg to differ from your views that vEdAs does not talk > about the supremacy of any devata. The same verse says that " paramO > vishNu". What is the meaning of the word "paramO"? Does it mean > farthest. No. It clearly conveys the meaning that vishNu is the para > brahman (Supreme Being). Naturally the opposite word to paramO is > avamO. So the interpretation is right. But what made our > poorvAchAryAs to interpret in such way is the question. I have quoted > some verses in my postings from vEdAs which clearly talks about the > supremacy of VishNu. Sri Vijayaraghavan Bhashyam had also quoted may > verses from the vEdAs which uphold the supremacy of VishNu. Then how > can it be considered that the vEdAs do not talk about superiority of > any dEvata. > > Also your interpretation tries to mislead. What is the scale in which > the nearest or the farthest is measured. Adiyen does not agree to the > fact that Vishnu is the farthest. Just go thro our beloved Azhwars > divya prabhandams for more references. 1) patthudai adiyavarkku > eLiyavan...., 2) engum uLan kaNNan.... and many more. These are only > a very little examples. That Sriman Narayanan is every pervading and > omnipresent was very clearly proved by Sri Prahaladha and that is the > no. 2 example written above. So how can he be the farthest. > > Finally, whose interpretation is what you wrote ( Agni is the nearest > and Vishnu is the farthest). > > adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan, > Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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