Non-Brahmin origin of some Iyengars?

[Guest guest]

Sri:

srimathE gopaladesika mahadesikaya namah:

 

Dear all,

I'm new to this thread and would appreciate your help

with regard to a freshman sociology college paper I

have to complete on ethno-cultural homogeneity in a

specific community, in this case, Sri Vaisnava

Iyengars.

 

My question is whether there is historical basis to

the popular belief that there are some Iyengars who

have non-Brahmin origins in the distant past. I have

come across this in various texts and forums and would

like to know your learned opinions. It is claimed that

Sri Ramanujacharya converted certain of the

non-Brahmin communities to being Brahmin Iyengars.

Also, according to a paper on social mobility it is

cited that possibly the higher ranking non-Brahmins in

temples like Srirangam, i think known as the sAttAda

mudalis, who were given high ritual status were

eventually taken into the Iyengar fold, particularly

among the Tengalais were Sanskrit was not given such

so much emphasis.

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

adiyEn,

 

A. Kandaswami Shastri

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha

srImadh varavara munayE namaha

 

Dear Sri Shastri,

 

First of all who said that Swamy emberumAnAr converted non-brahmins into

brahmins. No where there is proof to substantiate this claim. The fact is

only that he converted many to Sri Vaishnavites. As known to everybody, not

all the Sri Vaishnavites are brahmins. As you have stated yourself, it is

only a belief, long held by some people of a particular sect to degrade the

Sri Vaishnavites of the other sect. There is no historic evidence for this.

 

Also all the sAthAdha mudalis of temples like Srirangam, remain to date as

sAthAdha mudalis. Nobody was taken into the brahmin fold. Srirangam

SthalathArs in this list can verify this very much.

 

Regarding the lesser importance given by the Thenkalais towards sanskrit,

the reason is different. They just follow their AchAryA, the Sri Vaishnava

sArvabhouman, swAmi maNavALa mAmuni, who inturn was instructed by his

illustrious achArya , Sri ThiruvAzimozhip piLLai, to uplift the drAvida

vEdham "Divya prabhandham", out of the fear that not many are following it.

Even in this case, he instructed swAmi maNavALa mAmuni to do the

kAlakshEpam of Sri Bhashyam and other sanskrit related krithis, for a

period of one year (only to prove that he is Ubhaya vEdhAnthAchAriar) and

then continue with only the tamizh prabhandams.

 

Nevertheless, these tamizh prabhandhams are the ones, which made swAmi

maNavALa mAmuni attain the post and pride which not even, swAmi emberumAnAr

could receive. Being "jagadhAchAryan".

 

YES HE IS THE ACHARYA SARVABHOUMAN, as he is the AchAryA for emberumAn

Himself. It is a well know fact to every body in the world that it is only

after hearing to swAmi maNavALa mAmuni's upanyAsam on thiruvAimozhi, based

on eedu muppatthARAyirap padi and others, the Supreme godhead Sriman

Narayanan in the form of Sri Ranganathan, the emberumAn of the No.1 divya

desam in this bhoolOkam, acclaimed him as His AchArya and gave, the famous

thaniyAn "srIsailEsa dayA pAtram..." to this world. He not only gave it to

the world, but also made the entire world recite that thaniyan in each and

every divya dEsam, before any aruLicheyal ghOshti, by appearing in the

dreams of all the archakas of all the divya desams and ordering them to do

so. As the recitation of Sanskrit krithis start with "Hari: Om", the

thamizh krithis start todate with "Sri sailEsa dayA pAthram".

 

Now it is no wonder the Thenkalais give more importance to the tamizh

prabhandams, which made the anthimAchArya in the AchArya lineage, the

AchArya of emberumAn himself. Hope, it is now clear that the thenkalais not

giving importance to sanskrit works is not related to, the long held

TOTALLY WRONG belief that most of them are converted from non-brahmins.

 

Finally, on the whole, there is no proof that Sri rAmAnuja did any caste

conversions, though he respected all Sri Vaishnavites for just being a Sri

Vaishnavite and not by caste. The proof of this can be had from the fact

that Sri Thirukkacchi Nambi, who actually belong to vaishya caste, was one

of the proud AchAryAs of emberumAnAr himself and every guruparamparai talks

about this. This is more based on the pAsuram in thiruvAimozhi "kulam

thAngu sAdigaL nAlilum keezh izhindu, etthanai nalamthAnilAdha saNdALa

saNdALargaLAgilum, valam thAngu sakkarathaNNal maNivaNNarkkALenRu uL

kalandhAr, adiyAr, tham adiyAr, em adigaLE" ( swAmy nammAzhwAr here states

that he is a slave of even those who are born in the most worst caste,

which does not even fall within the varNas, if they are all slaves of

Sriman Narayanan).

 

 

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan,

Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

 

(Embedded image moved to file: pic31101.pcx)

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sri Kandaswami,

 

It is not true that Sri Ramanuja went about changing non Brahmins to

Brahmins or vice versa.

He was a strict vedantin, yet had a clear vision of social justice. He

simply followed the footsteps of Vedas, Satvika puranas , Bhagvat Gita

where

there are number of illustrations to prove that Supreme Lord is attainable

irrespective one's caste or sex.

 

Till Sri ramanajuar's times, Caste and Sex were considered important

requirements for one to attain deliverance, the myth Sri Ramanuja

disproved.

 

However, I feel this popular beleif of ' Conversions??' came to being due

to following reasons.

 

1. Some biographers who wanted to eulogize Sri Ramanuja of his greater

social vision, gave this exaggerated account .

2. During the height of Kalai disputes some 50-60 years back, it was

normal for one kalai to tell the other kalai that they are so and so...

(What these followers of Ramanuja failed to understand is that one has to

be proud of being a Vaishnavite rather than a mere Brahmin which does not

guarantee any deliverance)

 

For instance the followers of Tennacharya sampradayam (This name has come

because majority of them were from South, i.e. Srirangam as opposed to

Kanchi or Mandya, which is North) cited that the other kalai has very few

acharyas in the guru parampara lineage to boast and hence they are

outsiders and they have identity crisis.

 

The Vadakalai followers pointed out non performance of certain Naimitya

karmas by other group and said other one is so and so...

 

3. The Third category of people are, Smartas, who could not substantiate

Advaitam by any logical reasoning(Thanks to works like Sri Bashyam and

Sata Dhusini.) , ended up with these sort of name calling out of

desperation. For Smartas, it is more important to be a Brahmin than any

body else. However for a Sri Vaishnava, (for both kalais), it is important

to be more devoted to Lord and his Kalyana gunas first then anything else.

The degree and extent may vary from one kalai to other depending on

interpretation of Rahasya grantas by respective acharyas.

 

 

These sort of name calling is promiment only among the less educated

,less matured people of both kalais and smartas and cannot be seen from

learned people.

 

To end my post, I am fully convinced that one has to be proud of BEING a

Vasihnava and not for being born in a Brahmin family .

 

 

Regards

 

KM Narayanan

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhagavathas,

 

I am in just catching up with the postings, so please forgive me for bringing

up old topics.

 

Ashegan Shastri wrote:

> Sri:

> srimathE gopaladesika mahadesikaya namah:

>

> Dear all,

> I'm new to this thread and would appreciate your help

> with regard to a freshman sociology college paper I

> have to complete on ethno-cultural homogeneity in a

> specific community, in this case, Sri Vaisnava

> Iyengars.

>

> My question is whether there is historical basis to

> the popular belief that there are some Iyengars who

> have non-Brahmin origins in the distant past. I have

> come across this in various texts and forums and would

> like to know your learned opinions. It is claimed that

> Sri Ramanujacharya converted certain of the

> non-Brahmin communities to being Brahmin Iyengars......

 

Sri Shastri,

 

Sri Varadhan, Sri Venkatesh, and others have already provided us with

first-hand and lucid insight into Sri Ramanuja's magnanimous ways for uniting

people from many communities under the banner of SriVaishnavam without

foregoing on Vedic injunctions regarding caste. For a somewhat more academic

understanding, you may wish to peruse G. Lakshamma's work, "The Impact of

Ramanuja's Teaching on Life and Conditions in Society." The book examines

Sri Ramanuja's life and teachings more from the perspective of a sociologist

and historical anthropologist to provide an interesting perspective on how

the ideals of Ramanuja darshanam were put into practical application in

unifying people under a common vision.

 

The book is available from South Asia Books in Columbia, Missouri.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mohan