srichoorna paripAlanai- reason

[Guest guest]

>In the interests of accuracy, it should be pointed out that

>the attainment of moksha is possible only through the grace

>of the Lord who is the paramAtman seated within the heart.

>Association with Sri Ramanuja or Sri Ramanuja's tradition

>is neither necessary nor sufficient to attain the moksha;

>rather, it is a helpful factor (perhaps the most helpful

>factor) on the way to becoming a jnAni, a 'wise one'.

 

My humble request to you and whoever believes as above, please

make an effort to listen to today's most wonderful upanyasam by

U.Ve.Velukkudi swamin on Ramanuja Sambhandham, the recorded tape of

which may be available from Sri Mukundan.

>As

>Sri Ramanuja explains, following up on Lord Krishna's remarks,

>the jnAni is one who has an unbearable thirst for the Lord and

>the Lord alone. Sri Ramanuja also clarifies so explicitly in

>Sribhashya, the Lord alone is once again the 'setu' to 'amRta'

>-- the bridge to immortality. The jnAni recognizes this in his

>or her very being and is therefore is that rare vessel that is

>completely filled with the grace of the Lord.

 

When this question was posed to U.Ve.Velukkudi Swamin the answer was

that this (Lord's nirhethuka kripai/grace being the ONLY means for

moksha)is for one with Gnana , Bhakthi, Vairagyam and NOT for

ordinary people like us. For the latter it IS ONLY rAmAnuja

sambhandham and once that is truly there , even the grace of the

Lord is automatic! What constitutes rAmAnuja sambhandham will be

something that will be covered in the next upanyasam by Velukkudi

Swamin.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani,

 

How does this stance ("not sufficient") agree with Sri

Madhurakavi Azhvar?

> Association with Sri Ramanuja or Sri Ramanuja's tradition

> is neither necessary nor sufficient to attain the moksha;

 

He himself states that "thEvu maRRaRiyEn" - I know of

no God but my acharyan Swami Nammazhvar. The vyakyAdars

of KaNNiNun SiRuththAmbu also state that in liberation

while Sriman Narayana stands in the beginning it is the

acharya that stands at the end. I guess one could make the

argument that it is Sriman Narayanan that worked through

Swami Nammazhvar, but then that wouldn't stop the extension

to Sri Ramanujar.

 

Kanninun Siruththambu also addresses the question whether

one needs an acharyan to reach Him. While the mind, speech

and body (other indriyas) are needed to be focused completely

on Him to reach Him, Sri Madhurakvi Azhvar states that just

saying his acharyan's name was sufficient ("nAvinAl naviRRU

inbam eithinEn") for him to attain the same. We all know that

it is impossible for us (at least almost all of us) to focus

even one indriya on Him all the time, so where is the chance

of using all. Hence it is imperative that we have acharya

sambantham and perhaps that is all we are capable of (which

in effect must be sufficient).

 

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

TCA Venkatesan

[Guest guest]

"In the interests of accuracy, it should be pointed

out that the attainment of moksha is possible only

through the grace of the Lord who is the paramAtman

seated within the heart."

 

The statement above is entirely true but

 

" Association with Sri Ramanuja or Sri Ramanuja's

tradition is neither necessary nor sufficient to

attain the moksha rather, it is a helpful factor

perhaps the most helpful factor) on the way to

becoming a jnAni, a 'wise one'."

 

while the statement above is contradictory,

I would like to mention the incident in Sri Ramanuja's

life on a paguni uttaram day when acharyar sung the

divine nector saranagathi gadyam invoking thayar and

Sri ranganathar.

 

In this he clearly requests that thayar has her

kataksham on all those associated with sri vaishnavism

and those initiated with the dvayam and thayar grants

sri ramanujar this gift

 

And if a person has the kataksham of Thayar , then

automatically one has the favour of the lord.

 

and another point i would like to mention is that one

need not be a jnani to attain moksha , one needs to

have ultimate faith and devotion towards the lord.

Gajendra moksha is an clear indication of this,

gajendra being a elephant had lost all his

intelligence and wisdom he had as a gandharva and the

only t hing he knew bwas that lord hari would help him

and protect him.

 

another incidence is of dhruva , being a child, all

that he knew was the lord would help him.

 

also the great alwars have sung many pasurams like

Verundrum nan araiyen............

 

so it can concluded that

Association with Sri Ramanuja or Sri Ramanuja's

tradition is necessary not only to become wise but

also to attain moksha.

 

Also to be noted that a person cannot attain moksha

without the guidance of an acharya.

so if one does not associate with Sri Ramanuja or Sri

Ramanuja's tradition or any tradition ( dvaita ,

advaita or vishista advaita ), it is sure that one

does not have a guru. and without the blessings of a

guru, the doors of moksha are closed.

 

and even if one follows any other tradition, the

moksha can be given by only one person and thats the

supreme purusha that the vedas have declared as Sri

Narayana

 

Sri: Adiyen

Sridhar

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sri:

Sri Ramanujaya Namah:

Sri Nigamahanta Desikaya Namah:

Sri Lakshmi Narasimha Pramatmane parabrahmane namah:

 

 

Here what i would like to mention is that, one need

not go in search of jnanam in order to attain moksha,

only one nedds to go in search of a guru, and once u

become the disciple of a guru, the guru will impart

the right type of jnanam needed taking into

consideration the spiritual level of the disciple.

 

This can be clearly seen in Sri vedanta Desikar's

life, where he did penence towards Sri Garuda Bhagavan

and then the veda purusha Sri Garuda himself took the

place of Guru and imparted the knowledge to our

beloved acharya Sri vedanta Desikar.

 

(also there is a story my grandfather usually used to

tell me when i was young which i am quoting,

 

There was a person who wanted to have the vision of

the lord, but he was a paamaran(illiterate) , he knew

nothing absolutely no jnanam, but he had a strong

wish in his mind that he had to see the lord, so he

approached many learned persons, but all mocked at him

and made fun of him, but he never lost hope , at last

he met a saintly holy person and asked him to accept

him as a disciple, the holy person took him as a

disciple and asked him only to chant the name of rama

continuosly, but the paamaram was not able to chant

the name of rama, he said to his guru, " swamy, i

cannot pronounce this word, pls give me something

which i can say easily ", so the guru imediately

understood the problem of his diciple and asked him to

chant mara,

when he continuosly chanted mara it formed the word

rama, and in mind he was concentrating on the lord.

and hence he had the vision of the lord.

 

Sri: Adiyen

Sridhar.S

 

 

 

--- RAJI SRIDHAR <sridharaji wrote:

> > and another point i would like to mention is that

> > one

> > need not be a jnani to attain moksha , one needs

> to

> > have ultimate faith and devotion towards the lord.

> >

> >

> >

> >Pranams Sriman Sridhar

>

> From the above statement, I understand that for

> jeevathma to attain moksha jnanam is not necessary.

> That means even ajnani can attain moksham. Is this

> correct?

>

> raji sridhar

> >

> >

> >

> > Find the one for you at Personals

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> >

> >

> >

>

-----------------------------

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> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Following up to adiyEn's post on this subject.

 

I think one needs to clarify the concept of "being

sufficient". I don't think anyone contests that it

is Sriman Narayana that gives mOksha. In that sense,

Acharya sambandam alone would be insufficient.

However, it is our pUrvAcharya stance that once an

acharya intercedes on behalf of a jIvan, He does

not permit Himself the choice of not giving mOksha

to that jIvan. That person therefore does not have

to directly plead their case (in whatever fashion)

to Him. In that sense, Acharya sambandam is

sufficient.

 

An interesting point from Kanninun Siruththambu

vyakyanam that adiyEn talked about earlier. Sri

Periyavaccan Pillai says that Sri Madhurakavi

Azhvar does not take his stance based on Sastric

fact or from his Acharyas upadEsam. He only states

this based on his acharyas tiruvadi sambandam. For

him that alone proved to be enough: both in terms

of proof as well as what he needed to attain. In

our case, we would continue to lack sastric fact,

but we do have acharya upadEsam for this (all our

acharyas starting from Sri Madhurakavi Azhvar

onward). The other interesting fact about this is

that this upadEsam starts coming to us right around

the time the Kali yuga started. Therein perhaps lies

a point that Acharya sambandam is most important in

this period.

 

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

TCA Venkatesan

 

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[Guest guest]

Continuing on this topic, it must be clear the word

"sambandham" cannot be taken to be merely as some

form of simple contact. This has to go way beyond

that. If it were something simple as a one time

meeting, or just being around one's acharyan, there

would be thousands and thousands of people that

would qualify. Obviously it goes beyond that to some

state wherein one actually can say "thEvumaRRaRiyEn".

How many of us can dare even think along those lines?

However, it is clear from our acharyas such as Sri

Madhurakavi Azhvar and Sri Koorathazhvan that this is

possible for a select few.

 

Continuing with the vyakyanams of Kanninun

Siruththambu one finds the following.

 

If one were to get close to Sriman Narayana, He will

absorb that person's mind, eyes and all other

faculties

such that they can think, see of nothing else. This

also happens to Sri Madhurakavi Azhvar, for the reason

 

that even though he approaches only his acharya Swami

Nammazhvar, Nammazhvar is near to Him. That is the

reason, according to the commentators, that Sri

Madhurakavi Azhvar continues to talk about Him in his

poem even while saying "thEvumaRRaRiyEn". Thus in a

deeper level, it is impossible to have pure acharya

sambandham without any emperumAn sambandham.

 

In fact, Sri Madhurakavi AzhvAr states

"thirithanthAkilum"; wherein he says that on the way

to reaching his acharya he went through Him and so if

he were to return he would come back to Him.

 

That pure acharya sambandham is impossible without

His sambandham, is also borne out by the fact He

Himself is an Acharya. In fact, He stands first

amongst the acharyas. Sri KooraththAzhvAn says

"lakshminAtha samArambhAm ... vandE guru paramparAm".

As one associates with one's acharya the relationship

simply works its way back to Him.

 

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

TCA Venkatesan

 

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