Vegetarianism

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Venkatesh and Sri Rajaram

There's no mention whatsoever in any of our scriptures that we **should

not** cut our plants entirely. Sri Mukundan's summarization about why

'killing' of plants is permitted, more or less appeals to our present day

thinking. However, we have always practised killing of the entire plant.

Harvesting(rice or wheat) is taking off the entire plant(of course by then

it almost dies up) and cleaning up the lands till the soil is rich in humus

again. And we have always had to kill spinach and other greens. "Aathi

keerai" is richly a part of the prescribed menu for our Dwadashi ParaNai.

 

And Sri Rajaram, the belief system among Muslims is different and why the

'halal way' among certain Muslims has been discussed before. It is nowhere

close to Vegetarianism. It's still murder but in a different way!

 

Just thought of clarifying. Hope we all view this subject objectively

dAsan/Srikant

 

 

 

 

 

Message: 8

Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:05:32 +0530

"TV Venkatesh/FXSLF/SEC/SANMAR" <tvv1

Re: Vegetarianism - Plants have life too. (Seek

Answers)

 

 

srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha

srImadh varavara munayE namaha

 

Dear Members,

 

It is a well known fact that the plants have life too. Then how can we

justify eating the plants? This is the main question. The answer for this

is simple and two fold.

 

1. If we cannot eat even plant, what are we to eat. Just common sense

reasoning. The least disturbed consumable is the plant. So, may be this is

the reason that the vegetarians are allowed to eat the plant.

 

2. Please note that we are not killing any plant, if at all we follow the

AhAra niyamams set by our poorvAchAryAs, strictly. As per the A.N we are

supposed to eat only the vegetable portion and the fruit portion of a

plant, without cutting the plant in entirety (Even incase of plants like

spinach, though we cut the leaves, we are not to fully destroy the plants).

In this way, the plant remains, and we are only cutting the portion that we

are asked to. This could be the main reason why our A.N states that we

should not eat the roots of the planta as it grows underground, because it

will kill the entire plant. The most important point here is that if you

pluck the fruit or the vegetable, you are not killing it, but only cutting

of that portion which will go waste if it is not used. So it is permitted

 

In general to survive we need to eat something and as per the first point

above, eating of the plants is justified and as per the second point above,

we are not killing any living things.

 

The above are only what came into my mind. If there is anything wrong or

foolish in the above statements, please forgive me.

 

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

 

 

 

 

_______________

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[Guest guest]

srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha

srImadh varavara munayE namaha

 

Dear Sri Srikant.

 

Thanks for bringing out this point. Yes, I really missed these items, where

we do pluck them in entirety. Thanks for correcting me. I agree with the

views presented by you and Sri Mukundan.

 

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

 

 

 

"Srikant

Sadagopan" bhakti-list

<srikasada@ho cc:

tmail.com> Vegetarianism

 

16-11-01

04:49 AM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sri Venkatesh and Sri Rajaram

There's no mention whatsoever in any of our scriptures that we **should

not** cut our plants entirely. Sri Mukundan's summarization about why

'killing' of plants is permitted, more or less appeals to our present day

thinking. However, we have always practised killing of the entire plant.

Harvesting(rice or wheat) is taking off the entire plant(of course by then

it almost dies up) and cleaning up the lands till the soil is rich in humus

 

again. And we have always had to kill spinach and other greens. "Aathi

keerai" is richly a part of the prescribed menu for our Dwadashi ParaNai.

 

And Sri Rajaram, the belief system among Muslims is different and why the

'halal way' among certain Muslims has been discussed before. It is nowhere

close to Vegetarianism. It's still murder but in a different way!

 

Just thought of clarifying. Hope we all view this subject objectively

dAsan/Srikant

[Guest guest]

Dear Srikant -

When Lord Krishna talks about food items in Bhagavad Gita, he essentially talks

in terms of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic food - not in terms of vegetarian and

non-vegetarian. We are advised take saatvic food so that our brain tissues are

well honed for understanding spiritual subjects. We support vegetarianism only

because most vegetarian food is saatvic. And the Lord and acharyas have all

unanimously prescribed offering only saatvic food (incl. vegetables, leaves,

grains and milk products) to the Lord and eating the remnants. Animal killing

in yajnas is prohhibted by sastras and acharyas in the age of kali.

I too do not know of any injunction against killing plants like in Jainism. But

I have come across anecdotes where sages eat only fruits that fallen from the

trees etc. so that they do not cause harm. But this standard of ahimsa is not

expected of every one.

I agree that Islamic injuction against killing is nowhere close to the

compassion or spiritual basis of vedic injunction. However, I was just trying to

communicate that even in religions meant for mlechaas and yavanas (Christianity

& Islam), there are restrictions with respect to killing. Even if a Muslim or

Christian argues based on Bible or Quran that he is entitled to non-vegetarian

diet, we should point out that his own scriptures have put down restrcitions.

Most of them place the argument, "We eat animals because God made them for us

to". The fact is they cannot control the senses enough so God has given easier

restrictions. This is nothing new to vedic thought. We also have exceptions for

people in the lower modes of nature. (ref. Markandeya purana).

Rajaram

[Guest guest]

Hari Hari,

 

Adiyen would like to add a few words about this

discussion on "Vegetarianism". This is just my

personal feeling. I have not regularly read earlier

postings on this matter. With that, I am sorry if I am

repeating the opinion of any other Bhaagavatha.

 

Many times, it is really disturbing to think of the

fact that we need to kill or injure a plant for our

eating. In that line of thinking, it is as applicable

to animals also. After all, we are troubling another

living being for our living. This naturally leads to

conclusion that cutting plants is no Ahimsa.

 

But the definition or understanding of LIFE itself may

provide some answer for these sorts of confusions.

 

In troubling an animal (i.e. Deham of an animal),

there is an AATMAN associated with that Deham who is

the pramaanam (i.e. witnessing or undergoing that

trouble to the body / Deham). Hence probably, I feel

we should not be doing that. But is the case same with

the body of a Plant ? I do not think so. I do not feel

that there is an AATMAN associated with a plant body

who is the witness / pramaanam for the (or undergoes

the) torture on the plant body. I feel, probably it is

for this reason, cutting plants is not considered as

Himsa.

 

Adiyen,s alpa buddhi has thought so. Learned members

of the group may kindly correct me for my ignorance.

 

Hari Hari

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Here is Adiyen's 2 cents worth:

 

1.Most of the times we vegetarians depend on the product of plants

like leaf, fruits, flowers , roots , etc., in which actually no

killing is involved.

 

2.But when we eat seeds and grains and entire plants (like keerai)

itself then we will be actually killing life there.But Life depends

on Life.whether it is animal or plant killing actually happens.But as

the Lord declares in the bhagavadgita one has to offer the vegetarian

food thus prepared to the Lord in the form of Yagna and partake the

prasaadam.With this No sin will accrue.

 

3.Also on Ekadashi days even eating grains is prohibited.

 

4.Now a question arises.As killing is involved in both vegetarian and

Non-vegetarian foods then why only vegetarian is prescribed? The

answer again comes from the Bhagavadgita.Plant based food along with

Milk and its products are purely satvic and Meat based food is

rajasic and tamasic which at cost should be avoided.

 

AdiYen

Suresh S

[Guest guest]

Dear bhAgavathAs,

 

For sustenance all creatures engage in causing some harm at some level to

other living beings. This is one of the laws of nature and is meant to be

that way to preserve ecological equilibrium. However, no creature other than

humans posses the faculty, skills and the resources necessary to practice

farming. Save for a very few (elephants/monkeys..), animals do not have the

instinct or intelligence to be otherwise. This is a natural phenomenon.

 

On the contrary, in the case of humans, non-vegetarianism is possible only

by increasing certain varieties of animal population artificially, thereby

upsetting the balance. And this requires more plants as well, to feed the

animals! Given that, vegetarian food is the most sensible, cost-effective,

healthy, and straightforward way to preserve the eco-balance and avoid

causing more harm to other living beings, plants inclusive. Ethically and

scientifically, it is difficult to justify otherwise.

 

Respectfully,

Sriram

[Guest guest]

dear friends

 

the basic problem here is the following.

 

ahimsa is a feeling of heart. if a person feels that he is

hurting a plant or an animal, it is his heart that is speaking

and not his brain. no amount of reference to shasthras and

evidence from scriptures can give a convincing arguement against

a heart felt sympathy for plants and animals.

 

thus, if i have no such (heart felt) feeling for plants or animals,

all i should do is to pray god to give me that kind heart so that

here after i will love them more.

 

with regards

narasimha