CLARIFY ME PLEASE

[Guest guest]

I belong to vadagalai sampradaya and got my samasrayanam done by his

Divine Grace Sri Sri Mukkur Swami. I am yet to undertake the

parasamarpanam ( Bharanyasam). I have a question to this group:

 

I have been associated with a SAT SANGA every week for about 2 hours

involving myself in a BHAJAN in which songs composed in praise of

Lord krishna, Lord Jagannnatha and all other SRI VISHNU MOORTHIs by

SRI SRI Krishna Premi Swami is being sung by few of the devotees of

Sri Sri Krishna Premi Swami.In the first half an hour the devotees

sing bhajans in praise of acharyas belong to saiva sampradaya for eg

BHAVAN NAMA BODENDRAL,ETC AND ALSO in praise of Sri Krishna premi

swami. But the rest one and half hours is devoted to krishna bajans.

Please clarify whether it is in order to involve myself in such a

satsang praising the other acharyas AFTER OBTAINING THE

PARASAMARPANAM which I intend taking shortly.Also clarify whether I

can continue listening to the lectures of SRI krishna premi swami

lectures ( as he basically follows advaita samprdaya )after my

PARASAMARPANAM.

 

ADIYEN RAMANUJA DASAN

 

NIRVALUR RAMANUJAM GOVINDARAJAN

[Guest guest]

Learned members of the group: I would like to request

you to post your answers on this question to the whole

of the group for the benefit of all of us. I was

planning on posting a similar question to the mailing

list.

 

1) There are various satsang groups (not

SriVaishnavite satsang groups) that sing Siva bajans

in addition to Krishna, Raama etc.. Many of us are

associated with such groups due to our physical

proximity to such groups and also due to the various

good social service activities that these groups are

involved with. I seek advice from learned members of

this bhati list to kindly guide us on this issue as to

what position we should be taking.

 

 

2) Sri Vishnu Sahasranama has a quite a few references

to the nama 'Siva'. But Sri Vishnu Sahasranama is

recited in all our temples (I mean - Perumal temples).

 

 

Having said that, I know staunch Sri Vaishnavites does

not visit any Siva or Ambal temples. ('Sriman Narayana

is the only God that we should surrender to and we

dont and shouldnt do that to any demi-Gods' - this

probably will be the reason given by a SriVaishnavite

on this). Even during the times of Emberumanar, we

have heard to the incident where in Koorathalvar would

not accept the supremacy of Siva even after his eyes

were goughed.

 

Can someone explain the discrepancy here (if there

really is any)?

 

Apologies for any unintended mistakes in the

questions.

 

Thanks a lot,

 

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan

 

Murali Sadagopan Seshadri

 

 

--- vamsidhara wrote:

> I belong to vadagalai sampradaya and got my

> samasrayanam done by his

> Divine Grace Sri Sri Mukkur Swami. I am yet to

> undertake the

> parasamarpanam ( Bharanyasam). I have a question to

> this group:

>

> I have been associated with a SAT SANGA every week

> for about 2 hours

> involving myself in a BHAJAN in which songs composed

> in praise of

> Lord krishna, Lord Jagannnatha and all other SRI

> VISHNU MOORTHIs by

> SRI SRI Krishna Premi Swami is being sung by few of

> the devotees of

> Sri Sri Krishna Premi Swami.In the first half an

> hour the devotees

> sing bhajans in praise of acharyas belong to saiva

> sampradaya for eg

> BHAVAN NAMA BODENDRAL,ETC AND ALSO in praise of Sri

> Krishna premi

> swami. But the rest one and half hours is devoted to

> krishna bajans.

> Please clarify whether it is in order to involve

> myself in such a

> satsang praising the other acharyas AFTER OBTAINING

> THE

> PARASAMARPANAM which I intend taking shortly.Also

> clarify whether I

> can continue listening to the lectures of SRI

> krishna premi swami

> lectures ( as he basically follows advaita samprdaya

> )after my

> PARASAMARPANAM.

>

> ADIYEN RAMANUJA DASAN

>

> NIRVALUR RAMANUJAM GOVINDARAJAN

>

>

>

>

-----------------------------

> - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

 

 

 

 

GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.

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[Guest guest]

Sri Venkata Gurave Nama:

 

Sri. Govind,

 

After one's Samhassrayanam, one is expected to live in faith (Maha

Visvasam) and spend his time in hearing the Lord's leelas and Acharya's

vaibhavams.

 

In this regard, associating to any Satsangam is welcome esp when you are

singing the Praise of Lord.

The fact that most of these Satsangams are organized by devoted members

of Advaitic sampradayam should not be the reason for not participating in

them.

Mahans like Sridhara Ayyawal, or Bodenral were great devotees of Sri

Krishna/Sri Rama.

 

Should you encounter any situation where you are asked to sing any

'bhajan' for Ganapati or any demi Gods, there is nothing wrong in humbly

refusing to do it as it goes against our Sampradayam. However, you should

not lose an opportunity to hear Upanyasams of Mahatmas like Sri Krishna

Premi.

 

Sri Krishna Premi is well respected by learnt scholars like Karpankadu

Swami, Thirukoiluyr Jeeyar etc.. It is very rare to find Sri Krishna

Premi

not quoting Sri Bhattar, Alwan or Swami Desikan in his Upanyasams.

 

Our Poorvacharyas never considered Advaitis as untouchables. Such a thing

goes against Sri Krishna/Sri Ramanuja's philosophy.

Appaya Dikshitar, one of greatest Advaitic scholors was a great rasika of

Koortalwan's works and was associated with Swami Desikan and Devaperumal.

 

Sri Mukkur Laskhmi Nrismhachar used to many times vquote from Sri Sankara

thru Sri Vidayranaya swami in his discourse, Yet he remained as a

steadfast Sri Vaishnava.

 

 

Even while, strongly refuting the philosophy of Sri Sankra, Sri Ramanuja

was very humble and critiqued only the philosophy portion and not the

person. This trend continues even today among the learnt scholars of

Ramanuja Samradayam. They consider that Adi Sankra as a great Bhatkata of

Lord, In his youth he gave out his Advaitic philosophy and however, in

his latter years, he longed for devotion to Lord.

 

 

It was Ramanuja who ensured in Sri Rangam people of Dwaita and Adwaita

sampradaya, who accepted Vedas as pramanam participate in different

kaimkaryams in temple affairs.(This continues even today)

 

Our Alwars hrudayam was favoring something like 'Bhajan'. (Refer, Perumal

Thirumozhi... "Adi Padi, Aarangavo Enru Azaikum' pasuram, Here Kulasekara

Azhwar, longs for chanting the holy names by dancing and singing)..

 

Analogus to this we have Ghosti format advocated by our Poorvacharyas, we

are expected to chant the prabhandam in unison(not in a discordant way as

we see in some places). We need to encourage youth to come to streets to

participate in Ghosti and also teach them the verses of Prabandam by their

heart so that while rendering, the note is not discordant but in unison.

 

 

Regards

 

KM Narayanan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

vamsidhara on 11/24/2001 09:58:14 AM

 

bhakti-list

cc:

 

CLARIFY ME PLEASE

 

 

I belong to vadagalai sampradaya and got my samasrayanam done by his

Divine Grace Sri Sri Mukkur Swami. I am yet to undertake the

parasamarpanam ( Bharanyasam). I have a question to this group:

 

I have been associated with a SAT SANGA every week for about 2 hours

involving myself in a BHAJAN in which songs composed in praise of

Lord krishna, Lord Jagannnatha and all other SRI VISHNU MOORTHIs by

SRI SRI Krishna Premi Swami is being sung by few of the devotees of

Sri Sri Krishna Premi Swami.In the first half an hour the devotees

sing bhajans in praise of acharyas belong to saiva sampradaya for eg

BHAVAN NAMA BODENDRAL,ETC AND ALSO in praise of Sri Krishna premi

swami. But the rest one and half hours is devoted to krishna bajans.

Please clarify whether it is in order to involve myself in such a

satsang praising the other acharyas AFTER OBTAINING THE

PARASAMARPANAM which I intend taking shortly.Also clarify whether I

can continue listening to the lectures of SRI krishna premi swami

lectures ( as he basically follows advaita samprdaya )after my

PARASAMARPANAM.

 

ADIYEN RAMANUJA DASAN

 

NIRVALUR RAMANUJAM GOVINDARAJAN

 

 

 

-----------------------------

- SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

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[Guest guest]

 

Murali Seshadri [murali_svsh]

Monday, November 26, 2001 6:16 PM

vamsidhara; bhakti-list

Re: CLARIFY ME PLEASE

Learned members of the group: I would like to request you to post your

answers on this question to the whole of the group for the benefit of all of

us. I was planning on posting a similar question to the mailing list.

Dear bhAgavtAs,

Recently a lot of queries had come-in regarding what position should a srI

vaishnavA adopt vis-a-vis other deities. A lot had been said earlier, and

readily available in the archives. Please visit

http://sriramanujar.tripod.com/ for Sri MS Hari's tutorial. I am no subject

expert on this, but would like to share some thoughts.

 

The most popular metaphor offered is the relationship one has to his/her

spouse. It is a very special and unique one, with no scope for compromise!

While one is a husband or wife, he or she is also a brother, a son, a

sister, a daughter or just a friend. As a srI vaishnavA, you should have no

doubt whatsoever about your special relationship to srIman nArAyanA and His

followers.

 

It becomes an issue only when you extend the same status to other deities.

The simple logic is when we know our PerumAl can offer us everything we'll

ever need and more, why turn to others?

 

When one visits places of worship of other faiths, there is a potential to

get into a difficult situation with respect to one's belief. To remain

unswayed requires a strong conviction that comes only with more knowledge

and understanding of one's own faith and others' as well.

 

References to Siva / other deities in Sri Vishnu-SahasranAma is to drive

home the point that srIman nArAyanA is the antarAtmA or

in-dweller/controller of everything.

 

"Devotees of gods go to the gods. The manes worshippers go to the manes. The

worshippers of bhUtas go to the bhUtas. And those who worship Me come to

e" - Lord srI krishnA, Bhagavad gItA, Chapter 9 Verse 25.

 

AdiyEn,

Sriram

PS: manes - pronounced maa-nayz - the venerated spirit of a dead person.

[Guest guest]

Murali Seshadri <murali_svsh> wrote:

> 1) There are various satsang groups (not

> SriVaishnavite satsang groups) that sing Siva bajans

> in addition to Krishna, Raama etc.. Many of us are

> associated with such groups due to our physical

> proximity to such groups and also due to the various

> good social service activities that these groups are

> involved with. I seek advice from learned members of

> this bhati list to kindly guide us on this issue as to

> what position we should be taking.

>From my experience, if you are refering to some satsangh groups

outside India, yes many of them do involve in Singing Bhajans of Anya

Devatas. This can be understood by the fact that the bhakta

sammelanam across countries outside India are not entirely made up of

Sri Vaishnavas alone.Hence the need for a "wider" mode of

bhajans/pUjas.

 

This topic has been discussed ever since the inception of the bhakti

list many many times. Adiyen can only hope to "rationalize" it by

refering to one of the quotes of Adi Shankarar:

 

"Aksam Pathitham Thoyam, Yatha Gacathi Sagarami Sarvadev Namaskaram,

Kesavam Prathi Gachathi"

 

"Just as all the mighty rivers ultimately flow into the ocean,

through whatever mode a devotee worships, he ultimately reaches the

One Lord Kesava"

> 2) Sri Vishnu Sahasranama has a quite a few references

> to the nama 'Siva'. But Sri Vishnu Sahasranama is

> recited in all our temples (I mean - Perumal temples).

 

Actually, all the names of Sarveshwaran can connote Maheswaran.

Appayya Diskhita had authored a work wherein he equates all names of

Sarveshwaran found in the Vishnu Sahasranamam to Maheshwaran.However,

he fails to connote the word "nArAyanA" to maheshwara.

 

Refer to the Vishnu Sahasranamam bhAshyam of parAshara bhattar which

is called "bhagavad guna darpanam". Sriman Narasimhan Krishnamachari

of Naperville,IL is regularly posting on various namams of

Sarveshwaran found in the Vishnu Sahasranamam.

 

Here is a link which archives the postings of Sriman Narasimhan

Krishamachari;

 

http://www.geocities.com/padmamkk/sahasra/index.html

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Daasan,

 

Malolan Cadambi

[Guest guest]

Respected Devotee,

 

I apologize in advance for this long posting. But, in response to

your questions:

 

Our AchAryas teach us that the names contained in Sri Vishnu

SahasranAmam are

proper nouns, Sanskrit words with a precise and clear meaning that

reveal to us

His countless good qualities, his anantakalyAna gunas. Our AchAryas

teach how the Lord, out of His Compassionate and All Encompassing

Desire to Save us, uses each guna like a rope to ensnare us with His

charm us and lead us back to Himself. Consequently, each name

should be seen as an object of blissful contemplation on the nature

of the Divine.

 

The question arises though as to how some of these names became

applied to

other deities. Just as we select names for our children from Sri

Vishnu

SahasranAmam, e.g., Rama, Krishna, Srinivasa, etc., for the purposes

of

extolling the Lord and ensuring that our children are protected by

Him,

simillary the plethora of souls who occupy the various exalted

positions of

dEvathas in the Universe have names in recognition of and in

gratitude to He

is the very source of their power and strength. So, while there is a

being

named Siva who assumes a particular place in this Universe in order

to perform

certain services to the Lord, he only bears a name of the Lord, and

cannot and should not be equated with Him. Nor should the name Siva,

which

has a proper and precise Sanskrit meaning that applies to Srimana

Narayana

alone, be seen as saying that our Lord Sriman Narayana is the same

Siva who

sits in meditation in the Himalayas, wears animal skins, and carries

the

Ganga on his head.

 

The Supremacy of Sriman Narayana and the proper understanding of His

Names

were once understood and accepted by all followers of Vedic

Culture,. Indeed,

our AchAryas tell us that even staunch advaitins such as Sri Adi

Shankara

were worshippers of Vishnu. However, over the years, with increased

secularization, and decreased interest in Vedic study, a new form of

neo-Vedic theology has come into vogue, in which all the gods, and

indeed many gurus and mystics, are put on par with Sriman Narayana,

being seen as different interpretations or different aspects of the

same being. This theology, which has been dubbed as Neo-advaitam or

American Hinduism by western scholars, has become especially popular

here in

the US, as it allows people of many different faiths, Saivas,

Vaishnavas,

Smarthas, Jains, etc., to gather together and interact in bhajans

and temple

worship. While it certainly is well-intended, it is a far cry from

the

teachings of SriVaishnavam, which identify the Divine as having a

unique name, Sriman Narayana, and clearly specified forms as para,

vyuha, vibhava, antariyAmin and archa avAtharas.

 

This then leads us to your other question. What to do at the at these

undoubtedly well-intended and spiritually inspiring gatherings where

the many deities are worshipped and adored through pooja and

bhajana? As prapannas, there is no other refuge, no other means to

our achieving the Divine, other than placing ourselves and all that

we care about under the protection of His Lotus Feet. As a result,

we feel no need to worship any other deity, and indeed, to do so

would question our faith in our surrender and would show disrespect

to our AchAryas who have blessed us with the sacraments of

surrender. Consequently, orthodox practitioners of our faith prefer

to avoid these more generic gatherings out of respect towards our

teachers. And, in India, where many of our scholars reside, most

people would recognize their dedication towards Sriman Narayana and

out of respect for this, would not trouble them to feel obligated to

attend these gatherings.

 

But, for the rest of us, particularly those of us living in big

cities in India or here in the USA, the need to participate in these

group gatherings is necessary to maintain our connection with our

community and of course, to provide us with a forum to develop our

own sense of faith. It should be noted that recitation of the Lord's

Holy Names is extolled by our AchAryas as a form of service to the

Lord in and of itself. Our AchAryas teach us that such a recitation

is easy as it pleasing to the senses, and can be performed by anyone

at anytime. Consequently, in my unqualified opinion, to be able to

recite His Names at a bhajana gathering, along with other devotees

(irrespective of their beliefs) is just as efficacious as if we were

chanting them before our own perumAl at home or at the temple. So, I

personally feel that our dedication to our siddhAntam would not be

jeopardized if we were to attend these bhajans, as long as in our

mood and attitude we maintain the teachings of our AchAryas.

 

In such a mood, the names of the Lord can be chanted freely and

openly, with the view of the Lord in our home or temple in our mind

and heart. When bhajans or poojas are performed to other deities, we

should either sit quietly and observe, chanting dvAyam mentally, or

we should chant along, recognizing that what we are doing is merely a

form of bhAgavatha kainkaryam, offering our respects to a fellow

devotee of the Lord. When asked to lead a bhajan, we should sing

only of His Greatness, and the Greatness of our AchAryas or AzhvArs.

At the conclusion of the bhajans, we must maintain respect for our

Ramanuja Darshanam by not taking the hArathi lamp to ourselves and

not placing kumkumam or vibhuti prasadam on our foreheads, as this

place is reserved only for His thiruvadi.

 

In terms of service, service to those who seek to serve the Divine is

the goal of all bhAgavathas. While SriVaishnava devotees are ideally

the ones we should seek to serve, this may not always be possible in

the USA or in larger cities in India. So, we should recognize the

followers of these other paths as devotees in their own right, and

seek to serve them in a way that would be helpful to them, while at

the same time, not infringing upon our obligations to our siddhAntam.

 

I hope this helps.

 

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Mohan

[Guest guest]

Anantha praNamams to BhagavathAs.

To add, Azhwar says " emmaaniach chollip paadi

ezhundhum parandhum thullhadaar thammaal karumam en

kandeer" if you do not sing and dance in his bhajan,

but restrain your bhakthi by faer of criticism by

other ie., overcome by "lajja" - how true is your

devotion to him?

Even when you sing prises of the devatas like siva,

ganapathy et al, pls remember that you are singing th

praise of great bhagavatha and so never desist from

doing the same. Well, there are some who in their

endeavour to extoll those devathas, attribute paratva

to them. this must not be accepted. you must politely

educate them at a letr moment, but maintain calmness

during the bhajana.

 

adiyEn

Suderson - rAmAnuja dAsan