Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

saranagathi & karma===question

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

radhe krishna!

namo venkateshaya

 

dear bhaagavatas,

adiyal has a doubt. i've heard that once we do saranaagathi to krishna, he

takes on all our karma and makes the account a complete zero. then again

i've also heard that, once we do saranaagathi to kanna, we still have to

deserve our karma, but it will be reduced greatly due to krishna's mercy.

but ultimately one will have to deserve one's karma.

 

so the question is, which is rite? does kanna get rid of all the karma or

does he reduce the potency of it? please shed some light on this as i'm

really confused. :(

 

thank u. :)

 

lottsa krishna premai

kalaivani

radhe shyam

namo narayana

 

 

 

_______________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama:

thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE !

senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE !

 

 

Obviously, "SaraNAgati" in the sense of "high-degree of

Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not immediately cause the

physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the sins/merits that

must be experienced through the gross body.

 

(I beleive bhagavd-rAmAnuja SAstrically argues in great length

pointing out the untenability of jIvan-mukta vaada.

but I don't know the details.)

 

Our material bodies exist only due to our past puNya-paapa-ruupa-

karma. Our current material body cannot exist even for a moment

without puNya-paapa-ruupa-karma . if your punya-paapa-acount hits

zero balance, then your gross body will instantly disappear!!

 

Thus for the baddha-jIva-s (ie yet-to-liberated) like us

existence of gross body => karma is still left =>

uninterupted devotional service _IMPOSSIBLE_ YET.

 

When prapatti is expressly requested to SrIman-nArAyaNa for the

purpose of doing uniterupted service at SrI-vaikuNTham (ie moksham),

the jIvaatmaa also requests WHEN it wants moksham be granted.

 

Most people request moksham only after the end of their current life

and so they automatically accept the fruition of all the past puNya-

paapa-roopa-karma till the current gross body disappears.

 

It is interesting that SrI kRshNa uses the future tense, "aham tvaa

sarva-paapEbhyO mokshayishyaami" in His bhagavad-gIta carama-Sloka.

ie "I _will_ liberate you from all karma"

 

But Sankara-nirviSesha-brahma-vaada and the Hare-kRshNa-s believe

that moksha can happen even for a baddha-jIva right here in this

world even with a material body.

But I do not see how that is possible.

However devoted one may be, the functions of the physically filthy

body (hunger/thirst/sleep) do manifest and do actually prevent one

from performing uninterupted devotional service.

plus the gross karmic body is disgusting - full of filth like bile,

urine, gas etc. jeevan-mukti concept is thus simply illogical !

 

Browse the archives "prapatti" for more details.

 

Here is one link in the archives, for a starter.

http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/dec99/0012.html

 

aDiyEn, thoopuL-piLLai-dAsan,

Ramkumar

 

bhakti-list, "kalaivani retnavellu"

<kalaivani4krishna@h...> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> radhe krishna!

> namo venkateshaya

>

> dear bhaagavatas,

> adiyal has a doubt. i've heard that once we do saranaagathi to

krishna, he

> takes on all our karma and makes the account a complete zero. then

again

> i've also heard that, once we do saranaagathi to kanna, we still

have to

> deserve our karma, but it will be reduced greatly due to krishna's

mercy.

> but ultimately one will have to deserve one's karma.

>

> so the question is, which is rite? does kanna get rid of all the

karma or

> does he reduce the potency of it? please shed some light on this as

i'm

> really confused. :(

>

> thank u. :)

>

> lottsa krishna premai

> kalaivani

> radhe shyam

> namo narayana

>

>

>

> _______________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pranams

 

After reading this and Sriman Krishna's mail and

Sriman's Prabhu's reply on Karma, I have a doubt.

Hope someone clarify this.

 

"Poya pizhayum puhutharuvan ninranavum theeyinil

thoosagum"

 

What exactly Andal is conveying in this?

 

Pranams

raji sridhar

 

 

--- tg_ram <tg_ram wrote:

> SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama:

> thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE !

> senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE !

>

>

> Obviously, "SaraNAgati" in the sense of

> "high-degree of

> Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not

> immediately cause the

> physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the

> sins/merits that

> must be experienced through the gross body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send FREE video emails in Mail!

http://promo./videomail/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha

srImadh varavara munayE namaha

 

Dear Smt Raji,

 

The meaning of those Sri AndAL's verses are to be read like this. She goes

to say that once we (the jeevAtmAs) get Bhagavath sambhandam, out of His

pure love towards us, and henceforth doing kainkaryam to Him by either

reciting (vAyinAl pAdi), or even just think about Him (manathinAl

sindhikka), or pay obeisance with flowers (thoomalar thoovi thozhudhu), He

will either neglect the past misdeeds (here to be interpreted as the karma)

{this is the vadagalai position} or consider the past misdeeds as bhOgyam

for Him {this is the thenkalai position} and get us absolved of them If

this is so, what about the ones that we have earned in this birth. Sri

AndAL says, even those will be gone like an ash when contact is established

with fire.

 

poya pizhayum puhutharuvAn - He removes the past misdeeds from our account

 

ninranavum - the remaining ones in this birth,

 

theeyinil thoosagum - Just like, anything that falls into fire will turn

into ashes.

 

 

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

 

 

 

 

AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam

adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan

Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh

 

 

 

 

RAJI SRIDHAR

<sridharaji@y bhakti-list

ahoo.com> cc:

Re: saranagathi & karma

21-01-02 ===question

12:57 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pranams

 

After reading this and Sriman Krishna's mail and

Sriman's Prabhu's reply on Karma, I have a doubt.

Hope someone clarify this.

 

"Poya pizhayum puhutharuvan ninranavum theeyinil

thoosagum"

 

What exactly Andal is conveying in this?

 

Pranams

raji sridhar

 

 

--- tg_ram <tg_ram wrote:

> SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama:

> thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE !

> senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE !

>

>

> Obviously, "SaraNAgati" in the sense of

> "high-degree of

> Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not

> immediately cause the

> physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the

> sins/merits that

> must be experienced through the gross body.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send FREE video emails in Mail!

http://promo./videomail/

 

 

-----------------------------

- SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list

Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/

 

 

Your use of is subject to

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

 

 

 

The information contained in this message is legally privileged and

confidential information intended only for the use of the addressed

individual or entity indicated in this message (or responsible for

delivery of the message to such person). It must not be read, copied,

disclosed, distributed or used by any person other than the addressee.

Unauthorised use, disclosure or copying is strictly prohibited and may be

unlawful.

 

Opinions, conclusions and other information on this message that do not

relate to the official business of any of the constituent companies of

the SANMAR GROUP shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by

the Group.

 

If you have received this message in error, you should destroy this

message and kindly notify the sender by e-mail.

 

Thank you.

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...