Guest guest Posted January 20, 2002 Report Share Posted January 20, 2002 radhe krishna! namo venkateshaya dear bhaagavatas, adiyal has a doubt. i've heard that once we do saranaagathi to krishna, he takes on all our karma and makes the account a complete zero. then again i've also heard that, once we do saranaagathi to kanna, we still have to deserve our karma, but it will be reduced greatly due to krishna's mercy. but ultimately one will have to deserve one's karma. so the question is, which is rite? does kanna get rid of all the karma or does he reduce the potency of it? please shed some light on this as i'm really confused. thank u. lottsa krishna premai kalaivani radhe shyam namo narayana _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2002 Report Share Posted January 20, 2002 SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama: thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE ! senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE ! Obviously, "SaraNAgati" in the sense of "high-degree of Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not immediately cause the physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the sins/merits that must be experienced through the gross body. (I beleive bhagavd-rAmAnuja SAstrically argues in great length pointing out the untenability of jIvan-mukta vaada. but I don't know the details.) Our material bodies exist only due to our past puNya-paapa-ruupa- karma. Our current material body cannot exist even for a moment without puNya-paapa-ruupa-karma . if your punya-paapa-acount hits zero balance, then your gross body will instantly disappear!! Thus for the baddha-jIva-s (ie yet-to-liberated) like us existence of gross body => karma is still left => uninterupted devotional service _IMPOSSIBLE_ YET. When prapatti is expressly requested to SrIman-nArAyaNa for the purpose of doing uniterupted service at SrI-vaikuNTham (ie moksham), the jIvaatmaa also requests WHEN it wants moksham be granted. Most people request moksham only after the end of their current life and so they automatically accept the fruition of all the past puNya- paapa-roopa-karma till the current gross body disappears. It is interesting that SrI kRshNa uses the future tense, "aham tvaa sarva-paapEbhyO mokshayishyaami" in His bhagavad-gIta carama-Sloka. ie "I _will_ liberate you from all karma" But Sankara-nirviSesha-brahma-vaada and the Hare-kRshNa-s believe that moksha can happen even for a baddha-jIva right here in this world even with a material body. But I do not see how that is possible. However devoted one may be, the functions of the physically filthy body (hunger/thirst/sleep) do manifest and do actually prevent one from performing uninterupted devotional service. plus the gross karmic body is disgusting - full of filth like bile, urine, gas etc. jeevan-mukti concept is thus simply illogical ! Browse the archives "prapatti" for more details. Here is one link in the archives, for a starter. http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/dec99/0012.html aDiyEn, thoopuL-piLLai-dAsan, Ramkumar bhakti-list, "kalaivani retnavellu" <kalaivani4krishna@h...> wrote: > > > > > radhe krishna! > namo venkateshaya > > dear bhaagavatas, > adiyal has a doubt. i've heard that once we do saranaagathi to krishna, he > takes on all our karma and makes the account a complete zero. then again > i've also heard that, once we do saranaagathi to kanna, we still have to > deserve our karma, but it will be reduced greatly due to krishna's mercy. > but ultimately one will have to deserve one's karma. > > so the question is, which is rite? does kanna get rid of all the karma or > does he reduce the potency of it? please shed some light on this as i'm > really confused. > > thank u. > > lottsa krishna premai > kalaivani > radhe shyam > namo narayana > > > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2002 Report Share Posted January 20, 2002 Pranams After reading this and Sriman Krishna's mail and Sriman's Prabhu's reply on Karma, I have a doubt. Hope someone clarify this. "Poya pizhayum puhutharuvan ninranavum theeyinil thoosagum" What exactly Andal is conveying in this? Pranams raji sridhar --- tg_ram <tg_ram wrote: > SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama: > thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE ! > senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE ! > > > Obviously, "SaraNAgati" in the sense of > "high-degree of > Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not > immediately cause the > physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the > sins/merits that > must be experienced through the gross body. Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2002 Report Share Posted January 21, 2002 srImathE rAmAnujAya namaha srImadh varavara munayE namaha Dear Smt Raji, The meaning of those Sri AndAL's verses are to be read like this. She goes to say that once we (the jeevAtmAs) get Bhagavath sambhandam, out of His pure love towards us, and henceforth doing kainkaryam to Him by either reciting (vAyinAl pAdi), or even just think about Him (manathinAl sindhikka), or pay obeisance with flowers (thoomalar thoovi thozhudhu), He will either neglect the past misdeeds (here to be interpreted as the karma) {this is the vadagalai position} or consider the past misdeeds as bhOgyam for Him {this is the thenkalai position} and get us absolved of them If this is so, what about the ones that we have earned in this birth. Sri AndAL says, even those will be gone like an ash when contact is established with fire. poya pizhayum puhutharuvAn - He removes the past misdeeds from our account ninranavum - the remaining ones in this birth, theeyinil thoosagum - Just like, anything that falls into fire will turn into ashes. AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh AzhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE saraNam adiyEn rAmAnuja dAsan Thirumalai Vinjamoor Venkatesh RAJI SRIDHAR <sridharaji@y bhakti-list ahoo.com> cc: Re: saranagathi & karma 21-01-02 ===question 12:57 PM Pranams After reading this and Sriman Krishna's mail and Sriman's Prabhu's reply on Karma, I have a doubt. Hope someone clarify this. "Poya pizhayum puhutharuvan ninranavum theeyinil thoosagum" What exactly Andal is conveying in this? Pranams raji sridhar --- tg_ram <tg_ram wrote: > SrImatE nigamAnta-mahaa-dESikaaya nama: > thanjap-para-gatiyait-thandharuLvOn vaazhiyE ! > senthamizh thoopuL thiru-venkaTavan vaazhiyE ! > > > Obviously, "SaraNAgati" in the sense of > "high-degree of > Surrenderedness to SrIman-nArAyaNa" does not > immediately cause the > physical/gross/material body to disappear nor the > sins/merits that > must be experienced through the gross body. Send FREE video emails in Mail! http://promo./videomail/ ----------------------------- - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ Your use of is subject to * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The information contained in this message is legally privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the addressed individual or entity indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person). It must not be read, copied, disclosed, distributed or used by any person other than the addressee. Unauthorised use, disclosure or copying is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Opinions, conclusions and other information on this message that do not relate to the official business of any of the constituent companies of the SANMAR GROUP shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by the Group. If you have received this message in error, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by e-mail. Thank you. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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