Guest guest Posted February 8, 2002 Report Share Posted February 8, 2002 Dear Sir, Hari Bol Did we exist along with God as individual souls on the spiritual planets or were we created by God? Are we God's expansions and if God expanded Himself to create us ? What was his purpose in doing so . Was God Alone before the souls were expanded or created? If we were created, then for what purpose and why do we have to suffer so much even when we are trying to be good. Why do sometimes the thinking comes that it is very hard to continuosly act ( do some work in devotion or do some fruitive work) and the best type of realization is impersonal realization. Please enlighten me on these matters. I am sorry for any mistakes made. Please excuse me for the same . Hare Krishna Hari Bol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2002 Report Share Posted February 9, 2002 Hari Hari, Pranams, I do not know how far what I am telling is right or not. But this is my perception. At some point in life, almost everyone may come across questions like these. Probably there are no answers for these that can be told just like that. As a soul gets elevated and elevated and elevated ...... by Bhakti, answers to all these types of questions become our experiences (i.e. Anubhavams). That is what experienced by all our Aachaaryaas and Saadhus (in particular, all of them were born with Anubhavams). Anubhavams cannot be put through words as they are, they will have to be just undergone. There are various ways defined for the same like Karma Yoga, Gnyaana Yoga etc. for the same. But the speciality of this Kali Yuga is that the same Anubhavams would be blessed upon on us by ShreemanNaarayanan just because of Naamasankeertanam, Harikathaashravanam. But, the true Bhakti (premai for the ShreemanNaarayanan) would not aim at having this Anubhavam also as the phalam. The Prema Bhakti towards ShreemanNaarayanan itself is the Saadhanam and Phalam together. Logically thinking, the capacity of our Buddhi (intellect) is very limited and one should not try to reason or understand (i.e. logically) the infinite (ShreemanNaaraayanan) with this alpa buddhi (i.e. limitied intellect). It is just like trying to fill a small pot with all the water from an Ocean. It just cannot happen. Karunaamayi ShreemanNaaraayan would anytime give us all those Anubhavams. But to repeat, as a true Prema Bhaktan, we should not be looking at that Phalam (result) (i.e. Anubhavam) also. Also, more important is, it is ShreemanNaaraayan who would be happier in giving us all those Anubhavams than we being happy in enjoying all those Anubhavams. Summary : I do not find it / feel it to be right to logically thinking and reasoning and trying to find answers to these types of doubts that we keep getting. I feel that it is impossible for the reason mentioned above. I feel that we just need to concentrate on always orienting ourselves towards ShreemanNaaraayan and his happiness. Adiyen's aparaadhams in this mail may kindly be excused by the learned Bhaagavathaas of the list. Hari Hari > Dear Sir, > Hari Bol > > Did we exist along with God as individual souls on > the spiritual > planets or were we created by God? > > Are we God's expansions and if God expanded Himself > to create us ? > What was his purpose in doing so . Was God Alone > before the souls > were expanded or created? > > If we were created, then for what purpose and why do > we have to > suffer so much even when we are trying to be good. > > Why do sometimes the thinking comes that it is very > hard to > continuosly act ( do some work in devotion or do > some fruitive work) > and the best type of realization is impersonal > realization. > > Please enlighten me on these matters. > > I am sorry for any mistakes made. > Please excuse me for the same . > > Hare Krishna > Hari Bol Send FREE Valentine eCards with Greetings! http://greetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2002 Report Share Posted February 24, 2002 Dear sri Govinda Madhav, see the answers to your questions below. these may not satisfy you but I liked the way you asked the questions. Not many people think in upanisadic ways. some questions come to us from within even though they may not appear to agree with the philosophies we study. Finding the answers to these questions may take us many years. Only when we find it, we feel happy. Hope our acharyas bless us with the answers. I will give only short answers. they are from the visistadvaita school of thought. I am not going into arguments one way or the other. ..... asmad gurubhyo namah Krishna Kashyap govindamadhav [govindamadhav] Friday, February 08, 2002 1:40 PM bhakti-list Questions Dear Sir, Hari Bol Did we exist along with God as individual souls on the spiritual planets or were we created by God? ******** we did exist always due to the eternal will of God along with him somewhere depending on our karmas. Are we God's expansions and if God expanded Himself to create us ? What was his purpose in doing so . Was God Alone before the souls were expanded or created? God was one without a second independent entity, in the beginning, ie. he was associated with souls and matter, who are totally dependent on him, in the unmanifest subtle form during pralaya or the deluge. At creation he willed to be many and made the matter and souls manifest in the form of Universe and entered into this very universe as its inner soul (controller, supporter and seshin ( world exists to satisfy him alone)). God himself did not go any transformation during the process. the transformation happened only to matter and souls. Even souls themselves do not undergo transformation in its svarupa or form but only its dharmabhuta jnana or its knowledge which expands and contracts due to karma. Hence everything and you yourself for that matter is verily bramhan in the sense that God exists as the inner controller or the atman. God exists as the universe: that means - universe as its attribute and remains as the inner controller of this universe. that is the meaning of tat tvam asi - "you are that". - God exists in you as the inner controller / supporter / seshin with "Your soul/ body" as His attribute. He is the underlying power that makes us live and act the we way we do. Our freedom is also given by him. Purpose behind creation is said to be his lila or divine play. One can say why cant he enjoy by himself without bringing us in the picture? This is the bheda jnana or thinking that we are separate from HIM. This is the error. When we realize that he is within us ;we are never alone and he is our everything, then we realize that this divine play is a way God uses to make us realize Him and experience eternal bliss along with him. When we experience such bliss all these questions will evaporate from our minds! The vedas say that one is not happy alone and hence even God needs company. Hence he creates. One can always question this lila theory or divine play theory of creation for ages! All I can say is that the answers to these questions are not available in this sensual world. The answers are known to the ones with pure mind. The answers can be known when God himself explains to us from within. bhidyate hridaya granthih chiddhyante sarva samsayaha - tasmin driste paravare. "the knots of the hearts are broken; all the doubts are cleared, when that divine brahman is seen!" - upanisads. If we were created, then for what purpose and why do we have to suffer so much even when we are trying to be good. ************ For this one has to clearly understand karma. Once it seems ganga threw all her seven children into the river without caring for any dharma. It looks so inhuman. However, if you see the previous story of those seven children, you come to know that they were the vasus - devas, who did some mistake and got cursed to be born as human beings; However, when they begged to be saved, they were given a boon of not living for long and attain their previous status of vasus immediately after birth. When you know the whole story, it becomes clear that what we see as "adharma" or suffering, is nothing but the results of past actions. We human beings try to measure analyse or assess everything from our perspective without knowledge of what the past actions were. Only when we know what past was, we will understand the truth behind suffering or karma or our actions. Hence suffering is only the result of our past actions which have to be experienced. Hence we cannot find an answer to the effects of past action without the grace of lord. God is not cruel to put us through suffering. Suffering is only a method adopted by God to teach us some values, which will make us pure and attain Him / Bliss eventually. When we have wealth or health or something which truly belongs to God, we tend to feel that we got it due to our independent efforts. This is is our ignorance. If we fail to see the action / presence of God in everything around us, that is error. Once we see that everything in this world is for the happiness of God, one will lose all sorrow, since he loses selfish identification with actions or their results. Why do sometimes the thinking comes that it is very hard to continuosly act ( do some work in devotion or do some fruitive work) and the best type of realization is impersonal realization. **** I am glad you asked this question. Many people undergo traditional education and just take it as it is due to fear of questioning or just mechanically follow the scriptures and commentaries without contemplation. Unless you contemplate you may not find such questions! what to say about answers to these questions. There is nothing wrong in impersonal realization as you put it. As per the upanishads, one did not have to stand in queue to take darshan of Lord in a temple. Sun is visible practically everywhere and you can meditate on the surya mandala madhyavarti - the Srimannarayana in the SUN. This is exactly "sandhyavandana" is a ritual prescribed. What is impersonal realization? it is not same as Nirguna realization. Nirguna is different from nirakara. nirguna means that which has no characteristics whatsoever. Such a realization is a non-entity according to Sri Ramanujacharya. Such an object with no characteristics does not exist!. Nirakara means formless, but a formless entity can have gunas or characteristics. One can meditate on truths in one's own mind or contemplation to assess the nature of these truths. What I understand from your term impersonal realization is - that peaceful realization where you dont have to participate in any ritual or bhajan or japa etc. This can happen to some folks and there is nothing wrong with it. This is purely based on one's background. For those who are not capable of meditating on God with all his divine attributes, one is advised to meditate on ATma or jivatma. Note one can even meditate on God as one's own atman or inner self. note the verse in bhagawadgita 12-12. shreyo hi jnanam abhyasat jnanat dhyanam visissyate dhyanat karma phala tyagah. tyagat shantiranantaram. - details of this verse are explained very well in Sri Ramanuja bhasya. I personally think that the commentary of Sri Ramanuja bhasya is brilliant for this verse ( ofcourse for whole of Gita for that matter), which explains how it depends on one's background to find what method works for himself/herself). Not everyone can directly start doing bhaktiyoga or even have samanya (ordinary) bhakti!. For such people for whom bhakti in lord is difficult, one should take up the understanding of self, which gives them peace of mind ( tyagat shantiranantaram). there is no point forcing oneself to do like others. It has to come from within. Even forcing someone to do prapatti or bharanyasam is also equally erroneous. One should not insist anyone however close to follow a path which works for them. A path has to be taken only if one is interested and tuned to take up a path. However one can instruct others in a calm way without any force, being a well wisher. There ends the matter. From then on, the quest has to take shape in the aspirant naturally. I am also sorry if I have made any mistakes. adiyen Krishna Kashyap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2002 Report Share Posted February 25, 2002 At 04:10 PM 2/24/02 -0800, you wrote: >Dear sri Govinda Madhav, >see the answers to your questions below. these may not satisfy you but I >liked the way you asked the questions. Not many people think in upanisadic >ways. some questions come to us from within even though they may not appear >to agree with the philosophies we study. Finding the answers to these >questions may take us many years. Only when we find it, we feel happy. Hope >our acharyas bless us with the answers. > >I will give only short answers. they are from the visistadvaita school of >thought. I am not going into arguments one way or the other. > >.... >asmad gurubhyo namah >Krishna Kashyap > Dear SrI Krishana Kashyap: Thanks ever so much for your clear and informative summary of the relationship between Isvaran and Jeevan in this world and beyond. This is one of the best summaries that I have been fortunate to come across .Your answers about the ways to comprehend the samsAric calamities and joys as a STitha Praj~na are valuable to read a few times to assimilate them and for help in our daily lives. You have indeed absorbed our AchArya UpadEsams and are gifted to articulate them with precision. A detailed study of SrImad Bhagavath GeethA is a must for every one. Thanks very much for your untiring GeethA Pravachanams. SrImathE RaamAnujAya Nama: SrImathE NaarAyaNa YathIndhra MahA DesikAya Nama: V.Sadagopan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2002 Report Share Posted February 25, 2002 Dear sri Sadagopan, thanks for your kind comments and blessings. again in my last personal email I forgot to mention this. All these answers were were given by HH. azhagiasingar, HH. Rangapriya swamy, Dr. NS Anantha rangachar, SMS CHARI, my late (grand father's brother) Sampath iyengar and so many gurus I have had. Let us always communicate with our acharyas everyday whose blessings help us face all difficulties. For some reason the study of srimadbhagavatham might fall thru the cracks for visistadvaitins, since traditionally except the later acharyas such as Sri Vedantadesikar etc., bhagavatham is not studied with vigor. ( alwars have mentioned them though). ( It seems the authorship of bhagavatham was sort of in question during the times of Sri Sankaracharya and hence not commented by Sri Ramanujacharya; prominence was given to Vishnupurana by both of them. I have not studied vishnupurana.). Answers to several questions we come across are well answered in Srimadbhagavatham. adiyen Krishna Kashyap. > >.... >asmad gurubhyo namah >Krishna Kashyap > Dear SrI Krishana Kashyap: Thanks ever so much for your clear and informative summary of the relationship between Isvaran and Jeevan in this world and beyond. This is one of the best summaries that I have been fortunate to come across .Your answers about the ways to comprehend the samsAric calamities and joys as a STitha Praj~na are valuable to read a few times to assimilate them and for help in our daily lives. You have indeed absorbed our AchArya UpadEsams and are gifted to articulate them with precision. A detailed study of SrImad Bhagavath GeethA is a must for every one. Thanks very much for your untiring GeethA Pravachanams. SrImathE RaamAnujAya Nama: SrImathE NaarAyaNa YathIndhra MahA DesikAya Nama: V.Sadagopan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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