Guest guest Posted February 25, 2002 Report Share Posted February 25, 2002 As you mention the blade of grass could have kept pace with Jayanta and killed him in mid air. But Rama's arrow does not touch a person who flees from it. That is a testimony which Maricha gives, one who had first-hand-experience with Rama's arrows. (I am not talking about 'astras' here, which are far, far superior to arrows and are initiated by mantras.) Maricha advises Ravana against his desire to covet Sita and tells him of his second attempt to kill Rama in the jungle. Here is what he says: "Belittling Rama, who had retired to the forest, even though he was possessed of great might, thinking that he was an ascetic (only), and recalling my past enmity (with him), I rushed towards him, highly enraged, in the form of a sharp-horned deer, thoughtlessly seeking to kill him, remembering as I did the blow dealt by him. Stretching at full length his very mighty bow, three sharp arrows - which were capable of putting an end to the enemy and which sped like Garuda (the king of birds and the carrier of Lord Vishnu) and the wind - were let loose by him. All those three most dreadful and flat-knobbed arrows, which shone brightly as lightning, and were fond of sucking blood - sped (towards me) together. Knowing as I did the prowess of Rama and having seen the peril (to which I had exposed myself) on a previous occasion, I slipped away, cunning as I was and was thereby saved (since the arrow of Rama never hits a fugitive) while both those ogres (my companions) were killed." (Valmiki Ramayana, Aranya Kanda, Canto XXXIX, Sloka 9-13) This was discussed recently in the Religion column in ChennaiOnline. Jayanta could flee no more and came back to Rama and sought his pardon. We know what happened afterwards. Though the Lord holds the Brahmastra, He advises Lakshmana not to use it, even under a crisis. That was why Lakshmana had to fall when Indrajit used it against him. When Lakshmana sets out for the final battle with Indrajit, he goes with the sanction from Rama to use it, ONLY to counter the effects of the divine astras of Indrajit, and nothing beyond that. Indrajit was killed finally with an arrow and not an astra. What can one say about the mercy of the One who could spare even Ravana in the first battle, one who could give him many, many opportunties to mend his ways? Sincerely, Hari Krishnan - swamy swarna <swamyswarna Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram; Rajagopalan Narayan <rajagopalannarayan; <SrirangaSri> Sunday, February 24, 2002 12:07 PM Re: shodasa ayuda | | Sri Rama used a blade of grass (with suitable mantra) | to act as an Astra against Kakasura (Jayant, the son | of Indra), when he was trying to trouble Sita Mata. | The blade of grass took the form of a Divyastra and | pursued Kakasura (it could have easily overtaken him | and killed him, but that was not the intention of Sri | Rama!), all over the worlds. Finally he had to | surrender to Sri Rama. | | Thank you for initiating discussion on a very | interesting topic. Let us hope scholars will shed more | light on Lord's Ayudhas. | | Hari Om Tatsat. | | Swamy SV | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 hari om. thanks for the elaboration. can u clarify whether the blade of grass used by Sri Rama will be classified as Bana (Arrow) or as Astra? thanks. Swamy SV --- Hari Krishnan <harikrishnan wrote: > As you mention the blade of grass could have kept > pace with Jayanta and killed him in mid air. But > Rama's arrow does not touch a person who flees from > it. That is a testimony which Maricha gives, one > who had first-hand-experience with Rama's arrows. > (I am not talking about 'astras' here, which are > far, far superior to arrows and are initiated by > mantras.) Maricha advises Ravana against his desire > to covet Sita and tells him of his second attempt to > kill Rama in the jungle. Here is what he says: > > "Belittling Rama, who had retired to the forest, > even though he was possessed of great might, > thinking that he was an ascetic (only), and > recalling my past enmity (with him), I rushed > towards him, highly enraged, in the form of a > sharp-horned deer, thoughtlessly seeking to kill > him, remembering as I did the blow dealt by him. > Stretching at full length his very mighty bow, three > sharp arrows - which were capable of putting an end > to the enemy and which sped like Garuda (the king of > birds and the carrier of Lord Vishnu) and the wind - > were let loose by him. All those three most > dreadful and flat-knobbed arrows, which shone > brightly as lightning, and were fond of sucking > blood - sped (towards me) together. Knowing as I > did the prowess of Rama and having seen the peril > (to which I had exposed myself) on a previous > occasion, I slipped away, cunning as I was and was > thereby saved (since the arrow of Rama never hits a > fugitive) while both those ogres (my companions) > were killed." (Valmiki Ramayana, Aranya Kanda, > Canto XXXIX, Sloka 9-13) > > This was discussed recently in the Religion column > in ChennaiOnline. > > Jayanta could flee no more and came back to Rama and > sought his pardon. We know what happened > afterwards. > > Though the Lord holds the Brahmastra, He advises > Lakshmana not to use it, even under a crisis. That > was why Lakshmana had to fall when Indrajit used it > against him. When Lakshmana sets out for the final > battle with Indrajit, he goes with the sanction from > Rama to use it, ONLY to counter the effects of the > divine astras of Indrajit, and nothing beyond that. > Indrajit was killed finally with an arrow and not an > astra. > > What can one say about the mercy of the One who > could spare even Ravana in the first battle, one who > could give him many, many opportunties to mend his > ways? > > Sincerely, > Hari Krishnan > > > - > swamy swarna <swamyswarna > Rajaram Venkataramani <v_raja_ram; > Rajagopalan Narayan <rajagopalannarayan; > <SrirangaSri> > Sunday, February 24, 2002 12:07 PM > Re: shodasa ayuda > > > | > | Sri Rama used a blade of grass (with suitable > mantra) > | to act as an Astra against Kakasura (Jayant, the > son > | of Indra), when he was trying to trouble Sita > Mata. > | The blade of grass took the form of a Divyastra > and > | pursued Kakasura (it could have easily overtaken > him > | and killed him, but that was not the intention of > Sri > | Rama!), all over the worlds. Finally he had to > | surrender to Sri Rama. > | > | Thank you for initiating discussion on a very > | interesting topic. Let us hope scholars will shed > more > | light on Lord's Ayudhas. > | > | Hari Om Tatsat. > | > | Swamy SV > | > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: > bhakti-list > Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 1, 2002 Report Share Posted March 1, 2002 It should be classified as an astra. Unlike an arrow, any astra is invoked by its mantra. Whenever an astra is used, one can observe the mention of the phrases like 'uttering the mantra, chanting the mantra' etc. For example, this is a portion of text from Valmiki Ramayana, showing Indrajit invoking Brahmastra. "Indrajit, who was an adept in the use of mystic missiles, invoked the missile presided over by Brahma (the creator) and charged the bow as well as his chariot and all with the invocatory spell on the field of battle." (Yuddha Kanda, Canto LXXIII, Sloka 19) Sita recollects the Jayanta incident in Sundara Kanda, Kamba Ramayana. "Eka vaaLi av indiran semmal mEl pOka Evi adhu kaN podiththa naaL" Rama charged the blade of grass with a mantra and let it follow Jayanta. Since it was charged with mantra, it should be classified as an astra. The mantra charges the astra with power. There is a description of Acharya Dhrona in Mahabharata, taking a ball that fell into a well with a series of blades of grass charged by mantra that stuck one upon another on ends, on the ball, so that it could be pulled out. The mantra even controls, directs and regulates a powerful astra. Though Brahmastra is a dreaded weapon, it is seen that Lakshmana controls the extent of its effect with chanting of mantras, when countering the Brahmastra of Indrajit. 'Just stop it and destory it and do no more,' he commands. An arrow is nothing more than a steel tipped weapon. May be sharp; may not be sharp; may be thinner than needles; may be very long - (up to 9 feet, as mentioned in 'Indica' that describes the battle between Alexander and Porus. It says that the arrows used by the soldiers of Porus were 9' long and could smash any armour. If the *soldiers* of Porus used such arrows, imagine the size of arrows that were used by Rama and Lakshmana!) We have a detailed description of various kinds of arrows as well as astras in the Ramayana. The Mahabaratha gives an even more detailed account in this respect. We see pictures depicting Rama carrying his bow that measures up to his height. In actuality, there were different kinds of bows - the hunter's bow, shorter than the height of a person, the soldier's bow - four arms' length was the standard according to Ramayana, that is, double the height of the soldier - and there were the massive bows, used by kings. Just imagine the size! Mahabharata mentions that the bow of Arjuna measured the size of a palmyrah tree! Bows of Rama, Arjuna and others like them were divine and were extra large. That was why they needed the elevation of chariots to enable them to make the best use of the bows. Rama's bow was dreaded even by the asuras. It was such a massive bow. That would hijack the thread to some other direction. Thanks for the patience. :-) Sincerely, Hari Krishnan - swamy swarna Hari Krishnan ; Bhakti-List (AT) (DOT) Com Cc: Venkateswara Swamy Swarna Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:08 AM Re: shodasa ayuda hari om. thanks for the elaboration. can u clarify whether the blade of grass used by Sri Rama will be classified as Bana (Arrow) or as Astra? thanks. Swamy SV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2002 Report Share Posted March 2, 2002 Hari Om. thanks for the clarification. whether is is a Bana or an Astra, Rama's weapons are endowed with great intelligence and compassion, derived by His touch, it seems. His intention was always to reform and not to destroy. So whether it is Maricha, who could run away from His Bana or Kakasura who could keep running ahead of Rama's Astra, the message seems to be this: God is very merciful. He wants us to behave properly. He, out of His compassion gives us a long rope but finally pulls us to Him. Continuing Kakasura's story, when he finally comes and seeks refuge at His feet and when mother Sita too requests Sri Rama to forgive her errant, rogue son, He does forgive, but takes away Kakasura's Vakra Drishti in the form of one eye. And left a story with powerful morals for generations to come. While on the subject of offering an eye, two more puranic stories come to mind. That of Sri Bhrigu Maharshi and Bhakta Kannappa. Again the lessons are profound. Let us thank our great ancestors, who have left us this vast treasure. Hari Om. Swamy SV --- Hari Krishnan <harikrishnan wrote: > > It should be classified as an astra. Unlike an > arrow, any astra is invoked by its mantra. Whenever > an astra is used, one can observe the mention of the > phrases like 'uttering the mantra, chanting the > mantra' etc. For example, this is a portion of text > from Valmiki Ramayana, showing Indrajit invoking > Brahmastra. > > "Indrajit, who was an adept in the use of mystic > missiles, invoked the missile presided over by > Brahma (the creator) and charged the bow as well as > his chariot and all with the invocatory spell on the > field of battle." (Yuddha Kanda, Canto LXXIII, Sloka > 19) > > Sita recollects the Jayanta incident in Sundara > Kanda, Kamba Ramayana. > > "Eka vaaLi av indiran semmal mEl > pOka Evi adhu kaN podiththa naaL" > > Rama charged the blade of grass with a mantra and > let it follow Jayanta. Since it was charged with > mantra, it should be classified as an astra. The > mantra charges the astra with power. There is a > description of Acharya Dhrona in Mahabharata, taking > a ball that fell into a well with a series of blades > of grass charged by mantra that stuck one upon > another on ends, on the ball, so that it could be > pulled out. The mantra even controls, directs and > regulates a powerful astra. Though Brahmastra is a > dreaded weapon, it is seen that Lakshmana controls > the extent of its effect with chanting of mantras, > when countering the Brahmastra of Indrajit. 'Just > stop it and destory it and do no more,' he commands. > > An arrow is nothing more than a steel tipped weapon. > May be sharp; may not be sharp; may be thinner than > needles; may be very long - (up to 9 feet, as > mentioned in 'Indica' that describes the battle > between Alexander and Porus. It says that the > arrows used by the soldiers of Porus were 9' long > and could smash any armour. If the *soldiers* of > Porus used such arrows, imagine the size of arrows > that were used by Rama and Lakshmana!) We have a > detailed description of various kinds of arrows as > well as astras in the Ramayana. The Mahabaratha > gives an even more detailed account in this respect. > > We see pictures depicting Rama carrying his bow that > measures up to his height. In actuality, there were > different kinds of bows - the hunter's bow, shorter > than the height of a person, the soldier's bow - > four arms' length was the standard according to > Ramayana, that is, double the height of the soldier > - and there were the massive bows, used by kings. > Just imagine the size! Mahabharata mentions that > the bow of Arjuna measured the size of a palmyrah > tree! Bows of Rama, Arjuna and others like them were > divine and were extra large. That was why they > needed the elevation of chariots to enable them to > make the best use of the bows. Rama's bow was > dreaded even by the asuras. It was such a massive > bow. > > That would hijack the thread to some other > direction. Thanks for the patience. :-) > > Sincerely, > Hari Krishnan > > - > swamy swarna > Hari Krishnan ; Bhakti-List (AT) (DOT) Com > Cc: Venkateswara Swamy Swarna > Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:08 AM > Re: shodasa ayuda > > > hari om. thanks for the elaboration. can u clarify > whether the blade of grass used by Sri Rama will > be > classified as Bana (Arrow) or as Astra? thanks. > > Swamy SV > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - > To Post a message, send it to: > bhakti-list > Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ > > > Your use of is subject to > > > Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball http://sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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