A correction to the posting on 2'nd thiruvandhAdhi

[Guest guest]

Varadhan pointed out something interesting. The quote from Srivachana

bhUshanam (SVB) "kaN kaaNa nNiRkil aaNaiyittu vilakkuvaar_kaLenRu kaNNukku

thORRaathapati" and the inability of our mortal eyes to see his true

svaroopam are in different contexts. I meant to phrase them as two different

anubhavams for the reasons of perumAL's contemplation.

 

The SVB quote is normally interpreted as describing that if perumAL shows

Himself to us, we will, out of our ego/samsaara vaasanai, tell Him to go

away vehemently (aaNai ittu..). This is different from our inability to see

his true svaroopam.

adiyEn,

-Viji

(Vijay Triplicane)

 

 

**************************************************************

Why would perumAL hesitate, even a bit, to show his true golden form?

As explained

in the sri vachana bhUshaNam(*), He is contemplating what form He

can take to show Himself to us... If He shows His true viswaroopam,

can we, with our mortal eyes, even take a glimpse?

(* kaN kaaNa nNiRkil aaNaiyittu vilakkuvaar_kaLenRu kaNNukku

thORRaathapati)

*************************************************************

[Guest guest]

> Why would perumAL hesitate, even a bit, to show his true golden form?

> As explained

> in the sri vachana bhUshaNam(*), He is contemplating what form He

> can take to show Himself to us... If He shows His true viswaroopam,

> can we, with our mortal eyes, even take a glimpse?

> (* kaN kaaNa nNiRkil aaNaiyittu vilakkuvaar_kaLenRu kaNNukku

> thORRaathapati)

 

But why is it that PerumaaL so often *does* hesitate to show himself,

even to the Alvars? What game is he playing? I am reminded of

one of Nammalvar's paasurams from the "ArAvamutE" patikam of Tiruvaymoli.

This has always been a riddle to me, even after reading the

commentaries. Here, the Alvar cries out that he can visualize

PerumaaL in his mind, he can even feel the subtle presence

of the PerumaaL within him, but he is still not satisfied. He wants

the external experience of PerumaaL, not just similar to vision,

but actual vision:

 

You don't come at all; and then you come as a formless being.

Oh, my magician of wondrous forms!

Oh, nectar that never satiates!

Oh, you who are the sweetness of this slave's heart!

You have removed my incurable burden of karma, and

You have taken me into your service.

O Lord of Tirukkudandai!

I am serving you now;

Must I still suffer so?

 

vArA aruvAy varum en mAyA mAyA-mUrtiyAy

ArAvamutAy aDiyEn Avi akamE tittippAy

tIrA vinaigaL tIra ennai ANDAy tirukkuDandai

UrAy! unakku ATpaTTum aDiyEn innam uzhalvEnO? (tvm 5.10)

 

 

In other places the Alvars make it clear that if one has

the unbearable thirst for Him, He shows Himself. Why is

Nammalvar here denied His grace?

 

ramanuja dasan,

Mani

[Guest guest]

Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:

 

Dear Mani,

Nice posting on TVM Thirukudanthai pasuram.

 

You wrote, on TVM line 'vArA aruvAy varum en mAyA mAyA-mUrtiyAy' as

 

'You don't come at all; and then you come as a formless being.'

 

I presume the word 'mAyA-mUrtiyAy' is meant by alwar in terms of 'wonder' ,

awe' or 'astonishment' and not as

'Formless being'

 

Please clarify.

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

KM Narayanan

[Guest guest]

Dear Mani,

 

I am sorry for the impulsive note without research.

I presume you translated the word 'aruvAy in to 'formless being'and not the

word 'mAyA-mUrtiyAy'

 

In that sense, it is true and correct.

Now I wonder, why alwars who get lost and immersed at His 'roopam',

Vibhavam' and 'Archarvadaram' should

worry about his 'formless being'

 

Sorry again.

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

KM Narayanan

 

 

 

----- Forwarded by Narayanan K M/TKM_IND on 15/03/2002 08:55 AM -----

 

Narayanan K M

Mani Varadarajan

<mani

15/03/2002 cc: bhakti-list

08:07 AM Re: A correction to the

posting on 2'nd thiruvandhAdhi

(Document link: Narayanan K M)

 

 

 

 

Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama:

 

Dear Mani,

Nice posting on TVM Thirukudanthai pasuram.

 

You wrote, on TVM line 'vArA aruvAy varum en mAyA mAyA-mUrtiyAy' as

 

'You don't come at all; and then you come as a formless being.'

 

I presume the word 'mAyA-mUrtiyAy' is meant by alwar in terms of 'wonder' ,

awe' or 'astonishment' and not as

'Formless being'

 

Please clarify.

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

KM Narayanan

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani,

 

The following is strictly adiyEn's opinion. As

such all errors and poor interpretations are

also strictly mine.

 

I don't think we can literally take all of our

Azhvar's outpourings as their direct experiences.

 

A lot of it has to be taken as messages for us

given in a simple, elegant and understandable

form. As such we hear them lamenting their

separation, enjoying their association, talking

about their mortal sufferings, speaking of

their joyous ascension to paramapadam, etc.

 

If it were not, as an example, one should be

confused by Nammazhvar stating that one needs to

be at Tiruvengadam and performing kainkaryam there

and yet we know that he never physically went to

Tiruvengadam.

 

For most of us who wallow in the karmas of this

world, it is a fact that we do not experience Him

directly, as a vision or otherwise. Most of us

are even incapable of seeing His presence in

everything that surrounds us even though we

believe that to be true. Azhvar's various

messages/experiences apply to all of us at some

point or other. The times that he and other

bhAgavatas had direct experience of Him is also

a message to us, as to what we can aspire to.

 

adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan

TCA Venkatesan

 

--- Mani Varadarajan <mani

wrote:

>

> But why is it that PerumaaL so often *does*

> hesitate to show himself,

> even to the Alvars? What game is he playing? I am

> reminded of

> one of Nammalvar's paasurams from the "ArAvamutE"

> patikam of Tiruvaymoli.

> This has always been a riddle to me, even after

> reading the

> commentaries. Here, the Alvar cries out that he can

> visualize

> PerumaaL in his mind, he can even feel the subtle

> presence

> of the PerumaaL within him, but he is still not

> satisfied. He wants

> the external experience of PerumaaL, not just

> similar to vision,

> but actual vision:

>

>

> In other places the Alvars make it clear that if one

> has

> the unbearable thirst for Him, He shows Himself. Why

> is

> Nammalvar here denied His grace?

>

> ramanuja dasan,

> Mani

 

 

 

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