Creation - SV Ganapathi & Intro

[Guest guest]

A granular first cut at the creation question might

result in the following Q's

 

1. Who created the creator ?

2. How did the creator create the universe ?

3. Why did the creator create/manifest the universe ?

4. What is the origin of karma ?

 

The questions as discussed would seem to have the

following answers

 

On Q1. The Vedas do not offer comment

On Q2. The universe evolved from subtle to gross and

all of it and its contents (cit/acit) are a part of

the creator. The modalities of creation as identified

by physics being the Big Bang.

On Q4. Karma is "beginingless"

 

On Q3. Two interpretations have been offerred

1. Leela - The creator created the universe for play

2. To help jivas break out of their karmic cycle.

 

Section 7© of the Introduction to the Sama Veda by

S.V. Ganapathi. enclosed below seems to suggest a

possible third answer to Q3.

 

I would appreciate any elaboration/explanations on the

theory proposed below.

 

---Begin Quote

sAma vedA By S.V.Ganapathi

Introduction

Section 7 - Evolution according to sAma VedA

 

© Ideas are only Objective States of Creator

 

Since there was only the creator present, he had

himself to play the role of object. Intelligence in

activity creates only ideas and these formed his

objective states. But when he is an object there is no

subject and when he next resumes his role of subject

there is no object at that instant. During this

actiity several gods or Devas appeared on the scene.

In the first place appeared the Asvins with their twin

arms, along one arm of which he passed on to be an

object which he deposited in himself, as he was

present all over, and returned by the other arm of the

Asvins to resume his subjective role. This activity

spelt out two new ideas namely, (1) The sense of

differentiation and (2) the sense of touch by which

the objective states were constantly recharged. These

two functions form part of the seven-pronged or -armed

activity of Vaisvanara called also simply Activity or

the seven celestial rivers, the other arms being the

other four sense perceptions and speech. And now an

activity once initiated is repeated again and again to

confirm the object unshakeably. This role of repeating

activities was taken over by Rta. And now, from what

we said above the object of the creator to know

himself is not realised as this entails the

simultaneous presence of both subject and object which

however is not possible as it stands. So the creator

was committed to unending activity which persisted

even in the manifestation process.

---End Quote

(Note: Punctuation, grammar and text are a verbatim

copy of the 1992 reprint)

 

Thank you,

Srinivasan Sriram

 

An Introduction - I am a new member, a first time

poster and a periodic lurker of this list. I am

interested in the principles of Vedic philosophy and

its everyday applications. I reside in California

(Bay Area).

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

To raise more questions on Mr. Sriram's questions:

 

2a. Per previous listings on this subject, there is NO such thing as

one-time creation. Everything in universe is an expansion. That is,

the matter is recycled according to Karma (including humans). If so,

the big bang theory is invalid and mute. Which means the time had no

beginning and for all purposes no end (collapse theory). Is this

correct? According to the current scientific theory universe began

about 15 billion years ago.

 

4a. The Dashavatarams seem to support the evolution theory. That is,

Matsa, Koorma, Varaha, Narasimha to Rama, Krishna, etc...

Invertebrates to vertebrates, animals to human. If this is the

physical/biological evolution where does the karma come into picture?

How could the very first life form have accumulated any karma to be

thrown into the maya of reincarnation?

 

I am a new member to the list as well and amazed at the dedication

and the knowledge of the bhakti-list members who are dispersing the

invaluable gift to others members. Please pardon my ignorance if the

questions I have raised doesn't make any sense.

Sincerely,

Geeta Chakravarti

 

[ Dear Members -- Please base answers to these questions

on the words and philosophical ideas contained in the

Vedanta and Sri Ramanuja's works, supplemented by succeeding

acharyas' works. I request members not to get into the

neverending debate over creationism vs. evolution, or the

merits of the Big Bang theory, and rather focus on what

the concept of time means in Vedanta, and the notion of

creation vis-a-vis time. Please also feel free to discuss

the nature of karma and rebirth as understood by our

philosophers. Thanks - Moderator. ]