Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Dear SrivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, In the topic of the "meimmaip peru vaarththai" I would like to place the following points as my speculation for kind your consideration and comments. In naachchiyaar thirumozhi this "meimmai" is occurring in one more place [as I have noted, may be in more places also] 11- 10 - thiru arangar thaam paNiththa meimmaip peruvaarththai vittu chiththar kEttiruppar 13 - 9 semmaiyudaiya thiru maarvil sErththaanE enum oru gnaanRu meimmai solli mugam nOkki vidai thaan tharumEl miga nanRE. Mei in tamil also mean vEdham apart from the meaning The truth, The skin of the body The body itself. Usually in any argument it is said "avan solluvadhu enna vEdha vaakkO?" - so the inference here if it is said in vEdham like " ....", then it is simply to be accepted. No more arguments. [incidentally this is a reference taken from the words of that kaanchi mahaa periyavaal as he is usually called - kaanchi sankarachariar who is now no more] It is also said vEdhaas saasthram param naasthi - beyond vEdham there is no saasthram- rule or authority. So mei is vEdham. It is also said in thiruk kuRaL epporuL yaar yaar vaaik kEtpinum apporuL Meip poruL kaaNbadhu arivu. So if it is said in vEdham, that is the truth and substance. So thiru arangar thaam paNiththa -baNi in samskrith- sonna - meimmaip peru vaarththai - arangar sonna vEdhaththai - vittu chiththar kEttiruppar- sri bhattar piraan - aaNdaaL's father may have heard. Yes- he heard- this is known from sri bhattar piran's thaniyan - vEndiya vEdhangaL Odhi virainthu kizhi aruththaan - he hastily tore the cash bag hung after uttering the required vEdhaas - a man who did not learn in a regular way- uttered - means thiru arangar baNiththa meimmai kEttaar. This meimmai - taking as charama slOkam instead of vEdham - is not so apt I feel - for in the second context meimmai solli - vEdha manthrangaL solli - uttering manthraas from vEdham, mugam nOkki- seeing the face and vidai thaan tharumEl -giving a bid-adieu, then it is very good. If the meaning of "charama slOkam" is taken in the second context, then it gives a meaning that this payaNam is the last one - at the time of death - which is not the case here - for she asks for joining her husband - So the meimmai- is vEdhaas- means it is better logic. Also in decad 3-8 of periyaazhvaar thirumozhi, the same vittu chiththar worries how my daughter will be treated in her in laws place. 2. Krishna is the garuda dhvajan - no doubt in that - for when we sing the subrabhaatham in the morning in thiru aaraadhanam we sing Kousalyaa suprajaa raama poorva sandhyaa pravarthathE Uththishta nara saardhoola karthavyam dheivam aahnikam Uththishta uththishta gOvindha uththishta garuda dhvaja Uththishta kamalaa kaanthaa throlOkyam mangaLam kuru Also in thirumaalai verse 15 starting with "meyyaRkE" it is stated "putkodiyudaiya kOmaan" is that arangan - puL is bird and here it is garudan. So now doubt in that. But arjuna is hanumath dhvajan. This is from bhagavath geetha itself. atha vyavasthithaan dhrushtvaa Dhaartharaashtraan kapidhvaja: - slOkam 20 chapter 1 Further as the logic goes, the king is arjuna for whom the chariot is run by krishna, the sarathy. So arjuna will have his choice flag [kapi dvajam] and not the flag of his charioteer krishNa [garuda dhvajam]. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2002 Report Share Posted July 17, 2002 Dear Sriman Vasudevan, I think the key word here is not just "meimmai" but "peru vArththai". Everything that comes out of the Lord's mouth is nothing but meimmai. The fact that Sri Andal talks about a certain peru vArththai is the reason that it is identified with Carama Sloka - it is one vArththai and it is a monumental one. Otherwise Andal could have said meimmai vArththaikaL. As far as the flag issue goes, Sri Anbil Swami had mentioned that Garuda was present as the chariot and not in the flag. It would make sense that since Sri Krishna's vahana is Garuda, he would become the chariot for his Lord. As Periyazhvar is considered Garuda's amsam, Andal had said that Periyazhvar had listened to the meimmai peru vArththai. The above is adiyEn's rambling and I look forward to bhAgavatas notes on the same. adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan TCA Venkatesan http://www.acharya.org --- "M.G.Vasudevan" <mgv wrote: > Dear SrivaishNava perunthagaiyeer, > > In the topic of the "meimmaip peru vaarththai" I would > like to place the > following points as my speculation for kind your > consideration and comments. > > > In naachchiyaar thirumozhi this "meimmai" is occurring in > one more place [as > I have noted, may be in more places also] > > 11- 10 - thiru arangar thaam paNiththa meimmaip > peruvaarththai vittu > chiththar kEttiruppar > > 13 - 9 semmaiyudaiya thiru maarvil sErththaanE enum oru > gnaanRu meimmai > solli mugam nOkki vidai thaan tharumEl miga nanRE. > > Mei in tamil also mean vEdham apart from the meaning > The truth, > The skin of the body > The body itself. > [...] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2002 Report Share Posted July 19, 2002 Dear srivaishnava perunthagaiyeer, Thanks to sriman Venkatesan, Sriman Visu and Sriman Narasimhan for their very good comments. What I wanted to focus is meimmai peruvaarththai as a whole. After reading Sri Venkatesan's mail I get it that meimmai has a focus on its own and peru vaarththai has its own and combining these words in a single phrase has its own significance. As sri anbil mama has said the chariot - garuda amsam- perhaps that is the reason once my krishna got down after the war is over, it simply went in flames. For it received so many baaNams during the war, it should have gone in flames thath kshanamE. Since the jagat rakshakan is sitting in it and that too he sitting in the driver's seat, these baaNams could not do any thing. Also garudan the "chariot roopa vaahanam" for the lord, he can not be done with any harm by these baaNams. But once he got down there is no more need for the garudan to be there. Once garudan left, so the jadap porul chariot going up in flames is quite logical. See this thEr is described as dheivath thEr. Raamaanuja nooRRanthaadhi which is treated as part of 4000 prabhandham has this to say in verse 68 "maayan anRu aiver dheivath thErinil seppiya geethaiyin semmaip poruL" the chariot is dheivath thEr- dheivam krishNan Erina thEr- my lord krishna mounted this chariot and drove it - so it is dheivath thEr. Garudan- vEdha swaroopi - vEdham dheivaththin moochchu - krishNa's breath - vEdhamE dheivam - vEdhamE garudan - garudanE intha thEr - so also this is dheivath thEr. Incidentally this is also one more reference for geetha being referred in 4000 prabhandham apart from what has come out in the list so far. Semmaip porul - meimmaip peruvaarththai - oh great krishna your words - interpreted by the great aachaarya - raamanuja - a 100 anthaadhi in his praise - a reference to your words - oh krishna - Nothing more comes out for the present to the mind and hand - because of the high emotions. Dhasan Vasudevan m.g. TCA Venkatesan [sMTP:vtca] Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:05 AM bhakti-list re: meimmai peruvaarththai Dear Sriman Vasudevan, I think the key word here is not just "meimmai" but "peru vArththai". Everything that comes out of the Lord's mouth is nothing but meimmai. The fact that Sri Andal talks about a certain peru vArththai is the reason that it is identified with Carama Sloka - it is one vArththai and it is a monumental one. Otherwise Andal could have said meimmai vArththaikaL. As far as the flag issue goes, Sri Anbil Swami had mentioned that Garuda was present as the chariot and not in the flag. It would make sense that since Sri Krishna's vahana is Garuda, he would become the chariot for his Lord. As Periyazhvar is considered Garuda's amsam, Andal had said that Periyazhvar had listened to the meimmai peru vArththai. The above is adiyEn's rambling and I look forward to bhAgavatas notes on the same. adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan TCA Venkatesan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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