Guest guest Posted July 20, 2002 Report Share Posted July 20, 2002 SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA. Embaram sAdhikkalutrEn , Ennai-p- pOra vittittAyE.. (Thiruvaimozhi, 10-10-4) Hey lord, YOU are the Doer, YOU are the (things) Done. Then To do what, YOU have left me here? (Note: The discussion on a suitable Tamil equivalent for the word Bhakti is revived once again, on receipt of a message on this topic from Sri Parthasarathy Iyengar Swamy. The current mail is divided into three parts, -the first part giving reply to Sri Parthasarathy swami’s mail, -the 2-nd part validating the claim that the word ‘pattru’ can never be associated with bhakti, and -the 3-rd part dealing with a fresh search for an equivalent word based on PoorvachrayaL’s works. It is also conveyed in the humblest of the humble terms that no apacharam of any kind to any bhagavad vishayam or bhagavathas is meant in the course of writing this mail, as the sole motivating force behind writing this is something which will be brought to light at the end of this mail. Kindly have patience to read.) PART I Revered Sri Parthasarathy Iyengar Swamy writes:- Smt. Jayasree Saranathan, Adiyen saw your mail in Bhakti list regarding equivalent to ‘Bhakti” in tamil. You have nearly touched the point in Thiruvaimozhi 1.2.5. ‘ arrathu parrenil urrahthu veedu uyir cherru athu mannuril arrirai parrarre’. If attachment towards material aspects are destroyed moksham is attainable. If it is to last “irai parru” = surrender to Lord . So, Can we think of “IRAI P PARRU’ as equivalent? Jayasree writes:- The entire group of second ten in Mudhal paththu of TVM deals with how the samsaarin must do Athma samapaNam to Bhagawan in order to reach ‘Veedu’ What is the upaayam (means) of doing this surrender of the Athman to the lord? Is it bhakti? No the alwar does not say so. >From the end of 4th verse to 9th verse, it is described how to do the samarpaN - by means of renouncing pattru, - by means of prapatti - by means of losing oneself unto HIM (uLLil vodungE) In the above quoted verse from TVM 1-2-5, Irrai-pattru has been treated as a ‘samarpana kramam’ by Achrya Hrudhyam (AH) Thiruvaimozhi vyakhyaanam, In the verse 219-1, The word irrai pattru is equated with, (in the vyakhyaanam by PBA swamy) ‘veedu seiminE’, Irrai sErmin’, ‘thiN kazhaL sEr’ as means to reach ‘Veedu’ In sv parlance, these words stand for ‘prapatti’ and not bhakti. The second part of the message:- Or Consider verse 66 0f Ramanuja Noorrandhathi .. “ Gynam kanintha nalam kondu Naal thorum naibhavarkku Vanam koduppathu Madhavan So, Gnanam.. Ie., Knowledge, ( of Emperuman)when it matures, leads to Bhakti or deep inseparable desire towards Lord. Can we consider “Gnanam kanintha nalam” as equivalent to “ Bhakti” jayasree writes:- What we are looking for is a term that exactly stands for the word bhakti. If we say that ‘gyanam kanintha nalam’ is bhakti, it is the definition of bhakti and not a synonym of bhakti. If we ask what is bhakti, ‘it is gyanam kanintha nalam’ Or ‘gyanam kanintha nalam’ can be prapatti also, seen in the context (of the verse, to prove which we need the vyakhyaanam by Poorvacharyal themselves.) But the definition becoming the term, with the exception of a-kaara, u-kaara and ma-kaara of the Thirumanthraakshara wherein the letters themselves are the words with thaathparyam and vice versa, is unlikely. We need some authority to grant it acceptance. PART II It is hereby noted that we can as well dispense with our ‘pattru’ with the term pattru and train our focus elsewhere. For pattru seems nowhere to come near bhakti In order to prove that the term pattru independently or with some other meaning can not be equated to bhakti, certain objections are raised Objection-I. Of the 6 methods used in Hindu philosophy to arrive at a conclusion, the last one is known as Anupalabdhi. The first three, namely, Prathyaksha (perception), Anumaana (inference / reasoning)and Shabda (testimony)have been accepted by Sri Ramanuja. The last three, namely, Upamana (comparison), Arthaapthi( assumption) and Anupalabdhi(non- apprehension), according to Ramanuja, are not necessary as they are part of the first three. In that sense, anupalabdhi is part of Inference (anumana) The objection is raised here against equating pattru to Bhakti on the basis of this word suffering from the fallacy of Anupalabdhi. To understand anupalabdhi in simple terms, it is like looking at the sky during the daytime and telling that there are stars in the sky, even though you can not see stars in the day sky. But your inference is right because you have seen stars in the sky during twilight and at night. This continues day after day and night after night and therefore whenever you look at the sky, it is possible for you to associate stars with sky and hence this inference – the Anupalabdhi. Anupalabdhi arises here due to repetitive association of something with something else. The same is in operation in the usage of the word , Pattru. We have been so often coming across this word to mean ‘hold on to’ and ‘cling to’ and particularly in the quest of the Ultimate Reality, from ThirukkuraL to today’s poetry, the advice to cling to the feet of the lord is associated with pattru. If we are looking for an equivalent for ‘cling to’, our anupalabdhi is right. But we are looking for an equivalent for Bhakti! Unless it is proved that Bhakti means ‘cling to’ we can not accept this. The fallacy occurs here owing to the mix-up, like mistaking a planet for a star! The day sky might also hold planets and the moon. If we say ‘look at the day sky. Scan your eye across. You are actually looking at stars’ then we are not right. Because in some part of the sky that you look, there may be positioned the moon and the planets too. A similar fallacy takes place-mistaking pattru for Bhakti – Like mistaking a planet for a star. How to prove this? Proof I :- In Mumukshppadi 230, there comes a talk on ‘pattru’ (which is being considered as an important verse in explaining the nuances of the Charama slokam) The verse runs thus:- ‘avanai evan pattrum pattru ahangAra garbam,.’ The meaning asssigned to pattru here is ‘prapatti’ (NOT BHAKTI) The next verse ‘avanudaiya sweekaramE rakshkam’ also substantiates that the pattru in question is the jiva’s conscious act of surrender unto the lord’s feet and that it is the lord whose act of granting sharanagathi is rakshakam and not prapatti of the jiva that is giving rakshkam. It is upon renouncing these upayams also, does the jiva is granted sharanagathi. (According to MP, prapatti and sharanagathi are not the same – a tricky point that resolves some of the kalai differences – The reason for writing this here is to enable those wishing to know the status quo of the poorvacharyal on the differences and to help Sri TG Ram Kumar to catch the thread to find the answer for his vichanam of the petty -M) Proof II:- Having seen that pattru is prapatti, we shall go on to prove that bhakti is not prapatti. Then only we can say that pattru is not Bhakti. According to AH 100, It is said that Saadhana Bhakti ( the lakshana of Bhakti is depicted in verse 99) takes place before ‘irakka-p-praapthi’ which is described as a upaayam of the prapannan. Bhakti is said to have upaasana roopam. Whereas Prapatti is treated as a upEya kainkaryam. The inference is 1. pattru stands for prapatti. 2. Bhakthi is the stage / means that precedes prapatti (in the group of Chathur saadhanaa) Therefore Bhakti and prapatti are not one and the same. So also with bhakti and pattru. Linking this to the fallacy of the Anupalabdhi, (in objection I) The sky has both stars and the planets –like the means to attain liberation are bhakti or prapatti (pattru) But to say that all stars of the day sky are pattru and all the planets are stars and all bhakti is pattru - is a fallacy. * (Some (spontaneous / strange / ostensible) reaction from the irresistible Sri Srikrishna Thathachar is expected here:-)) * subject to moderator’s editing. Objection –II There comes the need to prove that pattru by any other meaning does not stand for Bhakti. Hence this objection. The word pattru has often been used in sv literature to mean attachment or bhandam to action (vinai)or materials. Proof I:- AH 12 says, ‘ ondru koodinadAi pattru arukka meendu vozhigaiyalE pazhavadiyEn ennum adhondrumE vozhikka vozhiyAdadu.’ The term used is pattru arukka, -‘to remove the pattru’ If it is assumed that this means bhakti or prapatti, this meaning (remove pattru) can not hold good. The reference is to ‘vinai-p-pattrukkum vidhiyE’ (NDP) This pattru can be removed but what can not be removed is the connection with the lord that continues from olden times (pazhavadi) Proof II:- AH 202, ‘pattrilanAi Kshoodrudpeetitha nirthanar..’ To have no aspirations for himself or attachment on any object is indicated here. Proof III. ‘Pattrilan Eshanum..”(TVM 1-2-6) PBA Swamy in his interpretation to this in AH says, that Emperuman in his Sishya lakshanam, leaves the connection with his parivaaram as He has to be with the alwar now and be the ‘sat–paathram’ (sishya)for the Alwar’s upadEsam. The terms (mentioned above) are chosen to have a negative connotation (pattru arukka, pattrilanAi, patrrilan etc) so that it can be ascertained beyond doubt that this word can not be associated with bhakti. If it is said that pattru is somethimg that must be dispensed with, (whatever its meaning), it cannot describe bhakti. Because Bhakti is what the jiva must develop to its optimum (parama bhakti) level and at no time it deserves to be swerved. The inference therefore is Patrru, in the context of two meanings popularly in vogue, is not a substitute for bhakti. PART III Now the search for the exact word(s). It has been reliably learnt that Sri Nampillai has dealt with this subject. One awe-inspiring aspect of our lineage is that whatever we raise here as questions and doubts, have already been contemplated (sometimes faced) by our PoorvaacharyaL and answered by them. It is for us to make the dive into their works and enjoy the ‘muththu-k-kuLiththal’ Nampillai equates Bhakti with KAADAL, ANBU, VETKAI, AVA (Readers who have access to relevant texts, are requested to bring out the context and the work in which this has appeared) TVM is being taken here as the pramaanam and the AH as the vykhyaanam Because TVM is being considered as the epitome of Bhakti., the entire TVM bubbling with parabhakti, paragyanam and paramabhakti. To begin with ‘Kaadal’ Proof:- AH 222-4, ‘….pranayithvathlE KAADAL maiyal E riya piththAi..’ The passage referred here is TVM- 4-3-9. ‘ uraikka vallEn allEn, uL ulappil keerthi veLLaththin karrai-k-kaN endru solluvan nAn? KAADAL maiyal ErinEn,” In the previous verse, the alwar finds the union of his self (Avi) with that of the lord (samslEshaththil dharikkai –ecstasy in union as seen within his heart.) And wonders how he can express this (uraikka vallEnE?) This union has been effected by his Kaadal. Further corroboration:- At another place , i.e., 6-8-2, the alwar calls upon the parrots to convey his Kaadal to HIM. “Meiyamar kAdal solli-k-kiLigAL” The interesting feature which we must notice here is that This “meiyamar-k-kaadal ‘of the alwar has been characterised as ‘Meiyamar BHAKTI” in AH 224-6 PBA Swamy says : ..’ kaadal ennumpadi keezh-p-paththil (in the 10 verses) thamakku-p-piranda Bhakti” Meaning, the alwar expresses bhakti which is known as Kaadal Now ANBU. Proof:- AH 202 “Poi kalavAdu ANBU seidhu..” The context is to establish that the lord fulfills the Sishya lakshanam. Yes, AH continues to say that emperuman stays beside the alwar and does all that a disciple will do to his acharya. How HE does. As how the Nithya suris do the vyamOham in Paramapadam to HIM , HE does the same to the alwar with true ANBU. It is the same Anbu that kOla malar-p-pAvai (periya pirAtti) does. Therefore Bhakti is equated to Anbu. In TVM 9-10-5, “thanadu anbarkku anbaagumE” Thanadu anbar = HIS Bhakthas Anbaagum = Bhakti Agum. Now vEtkai. In the earlier mail discussing this topic, vEtkai was discussed. But as it was felt that this word had been in use in a much lesser magnitude of the meaning of Bhakti, it was not given credence. Now that we have acceptance granted by Nampillai, we will see how this word has been put into use. Proof:- TVM 9-6-1 “perugu mAl vEtkai’ To show that this vEtkai is indeed Bhakti, let us see AH-199. “Kadir gyaana moorthik-ku uNarththuvadu prEmaththAlE, Thama mooduvArkku vEtkai exhuvippathu gyanthaalE” The lord shows the sarvagyan (kadir gyani), the way to Him as PREMAM. But to the samsari who is steeped in tamas (Thama mooduvaar), HE shows the way as VETKAI. The samsari with tamas has intense desire for worldly things. He has this vEtkai for material things. The lord tells him that HE will create a similar kind of vEtkai for HIM, in him, to reach HIM. (nin kaN vEtkai ezhuvippan –NDP – HE will create vEtkai in you, the samsaarin) Therefore this intense vEtkai is also equated to Bhakti. Now AVA. This has been very differently and lucidly handled by AH Because this forms the perfect finale for the 3 stages of Bhakti. The entire last ten of the TVM 10-10 is brimming with ‘mudintha avA’ and also just ‘avA’. What is the difference between the two? The alwar says why he sang the 1000 songs. Did he make any plan to sing? (AH) No, it is out of avA he sang. In the concluding verse after 10-10-10, he says, “avaavil andhaathigaLaal evai Ayiramum..” what is this avA that drove him to sing the 1000 songs. AH 188 answers this. “ neer, paal ,nei, amudhaai nirambina yEri neLikkumAppOlE parabhakthyAdhimaya gyaanaamrudhaapthi nimigira vaai karai midainthu mozhipattu, AVAAVIL ANDHAATHI yendru pEr pettradu” The transformation of water into milk And milk into ghee And ghee into nector Happens in a lake. When the lake continues to brim with this nector, it can not hold and a breach occurs. Similarly Water = gyanam Milk= parabhakti Ghee = para gyaanam Nector = paramabhakti. The alwar is brimming with these. The brimming nector /bhakti flows as TVM! When he says that he sang the songs out of avA, it means it is out of Bhakti. This is further substantiated by the alwar himself in the very last line “mudintha avAvil andhaathi ep-paththu” the last paththu have sprung from paramabhakthi. In his corresponding verse of Thiruvaimozhi nootrandhaadhi, Manavala maanmunigal accknowledges that it is in parama bhakti (paramabhakthiyaal naindu) That the alwar has sung the last 10. :MUDINDA AVA ENBADU PARAMABHAKTI – (AH 232-14) Thus it can be concluded Ava is bhakti and Mudinda avA denotes aarthi – completion of bhakthi / parama bhakti. Summing up Kaadal = comes in the context of the desire for union with the lord as felt by the lover. Anbu = comes in the context of desire to do service to the Guru as how Periya piratti does to the lord in paramapadam. VEtkai = comes in the context of an ordinary person afflicted by tamas, whose desire for the material things seems to be the ultimate. Avaa = comes as the final word from the mouth of the alwar himself as the supreme and extreme form of desire that culminates in union with god. It must be known how Nampillai has given the vyakhyaanam. But in the mean time, Shall we lay assured that avA caps it all, although the other three are very much equal to bhakti. To answer the point raised in the note (in the beginning)as to what is the motivating force to write this mail--- Is it avaa –aasai ? or avaa - bhakti? I know not. HE knows and HE only knows! ‘Theera irumbunda neeradhu pOla en aaruyirai, aara-p-parugum enakku aaraavamudhan ‘ (10-10-5) AVAN – avanukku-th-thaan theriyum!!!! Health - Feel better, live better http://health. 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Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 Dear all Perumaladiyargal, Since "Thondar-adi-podi-alwar" translates as: 1. Bhakta-pada-bhasma-sant in Sanskrit and 2. The mystic who is the dust under the feet of the devotees in English, I say that "Thondar" means "Bhagat" and hence "Thondam" would be the Tamil word for Bhakti. Perumal Sahayam. Regards, Venkatesh C.A. Tel: 91-22-6702615 ______________________ Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 Dear Sri Venkatesh, Pardon me for interfering. The translation given in the message to 'Thondar -adi-p-podi' is likely to throw up new issues as to what the words 'thondar' and 'thondu' stand for. These are very much Tamil words and Thondar-adi-p-podi is not a derivative of any sanskrit term in popular usage as your message itself reveals. Thondar in Tamil means 'servant' but in religious parlance it is always associated with service to God. A thondar is a Bhagavatha and this term in sanskrit is connected with Bhagvan and not Bhakti. By the way can anyone get the exact derivative of the term Bhakti in sanskrit because any term in sanskrit is a derivative of the meaning / thaatparya it stands for(kaaraNa-p-peyar). This might throw more light on our understanding. Acoording to sri Ramanuja, bhakti is like 'thaila dhaaraavathu' - like oil that flows steadily from one container to another container without any 'pisir'. Perhaps the context (avichinha santhana smruthi rupa) might bring out a better understanding. jayasree sarnathan -- In bhakti-list, Venkatesh Chitoor <vchitoor> wrote: > Dear all Perumaladiyargal, > > Since "Thondar-adi-podi-alwar" translates as: > 1. Bhakta-pada-bhasma-sant in Sanskrit and > 2. The mystic who is the dust under the feet of the > devotees in English, > > I say that "Thondar" means "Bhagat" and hence > "Thondam" would be the Tamil word for Bhakti. > > Perumal Sahayam. > > Regards, > > Venkatesh C.A. > Tel: 91-22-6702615 > > ____________________ __ > Want to sell your car? advertise on Autos Classifieds. It's Free!! > visit http://in.autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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