Guest guest Posted August 16, 2002 Report Share Posted August 16, 2002 Bear with me on this stinker. To those that say "everything is verily brahman", "brahman is verily everything", "matter is a mode of brahman's existence", "brahman pervades everything" and such - Could you explain what you mean? What do you think of brahman's pervasiveness in despicable things such as animal faeces? Please do not ignore SrI-rAmAnuja's descriptions of the brahman such as "akhika-heya-pratyanIka", "samasta-vastu-vilakshaNa", "trividha-chetana-achetana-svarUpa-sthiti-pravRtti- bhEdam", "sakhaletara vilakshaNa", "aSesha-dosha-asamspRshTam". aDiyEn //Ramkumar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2002 Report Share Posted August 17, 2002 Hi ppl The moderator used to pull me up every now and then whenever i used to ask a question saying that this group was too highly philospohical etc to be asking the kind of questions which i asked - now, i really wonder if he's asleep. Anyway - Mr. Ram - animal faeces - its not all that ugly as u think -i've seen many ppl sprinkling the urine of cows on their head - its so sacred .. and the stools of cows are very useful - they are a natural disinfectant - they are used to clean the floor after ppl have had their meals -( this was when ppl used to eat siting on the floor -don't try this at home though )- and hey - cowshit smells decent - better than any other thing of its kind.I've been talking too much abt cows. animal faeces - over a period of time decomposes - and turns into manure ! which provides with all the nutrition that plants need to grow ! and these plants provide us with fruits - which we consume - so in the larger sense - we're thankful to them. Coz we are in a way eating what they refuse !! I may not be answering ur question - i just wanted to say that they aren't ugly and stinky and despicable as u mentioned- they're just part of nature - if living beings coudn't discard the unwanted things that they consumed - then they would lead sick lives ! - In bhakti-list, "tg_ramkumar" <tg_ram@e...> wrote: > Bear with me on this stinker. > > To those that say "everything is verily brahman", > "brahman is verily everything", > "matter is a mode of brahman's existence", > "brahman pervades everything" and such - > > Could you explain what you mean? > > What do you think of brahman's pervasiveness in despicable things > such as animal faeces? > > Please do not ignore SrI-rAmAnuja's descriptions of the brahman > such as "akhika-heya-pratyanIka", "samasta-vastu-vilakshaNa", > "trividha-chetana-achetana-svarUpa-sthiti-pravRtti- > bhEdam", "sakhaletara vilakshaNa", > "aSesha-dosha-asamspRshTam". > > aDiyEn > //Ramkumar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Dear Sri Ramkumar, I think for the Brahman, there is no distinction between the goog and ugly matter. Sriman Narayana is should be certainly present in all substances. Why ugly matter, he should be present in those animals which live on this ugly matter. He should be present in those krimis in the ugly matter itself. According to our philosophy there is no substance which is not a shareera of the Brahman. "Akila-heya-pratyaneekan" does not mean that he is not present in ugly matter, but it means that he posses no bad qualities. He is also called as "Apahathapapma" which means that while he is all pervading, no dosha of a specific substance will affect him in any way. Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. Raghunandan --- tg_ramkumar <tg_ram wrote: > Bear with me on this stinker. > > To those that say "everything is verily brahman", > "brahman is verily everything", > "matter is a mode of brahman's existence", > "brahman pervades everything" and such - > > Could you explain what you mean? > > What do you think of brahman's pervasiveness in > despicable things > such as animal faeces? > > Please do not ignore SrI-rAmAnuja's descriptions of > the brahman > such as "akhika-heya-pratyanIka", > "samasta-vastu-vilakshaNa", > "trividha-chetana-achetana-svarUpa-sthiti-pravRtti- > bhEdam", "sakhaletara vilakshaNa", > "aSesha-dosha-asamspRshTam". > > aDiyEn > //Ramkumar > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha! Dear members, I would like to share some thoughts that sprang up in my mind when I read this mail. Well 'akila heya pratyanika' is a a quality of brahman. So, the quality has to be explained from the brahman's perspective. The failures for us, the human beings, would be when we try to define that in our own terms. Well, let us try analysing few things that we encounter in our everyday life. Pig! the one that rolls in the mud and stinks most of the time. I repeat it stinks! but for whom? for human beings and may be for few more animals too. But, a male pig loves the female one. The mother pig loves its kids. They like and love and are happy. It plays in the mud and it stinks. Man for that matter, cleans up the pig, kills it and eats it and says the taste is pretty good. This simple example explains so many things in our life. The words ugly, good etc are for us - the beauty lies at the eye of the beholders. For Sri Ramanujar, the view point was that of brahman. Brahman distinguishes none. He exists everywhere. There is no ugly or good. Though this is the quality of the brahman, it has to be defined in a term that has to be understood by every human being. If there is no distinction between beauty and ugly, good or bad - what do you call that quality as? It is a good quality right? Even the judge who is neutral to the good and the bad is called the good. If judge was not neutral you still call him bad. So, from that perspective, because the brahman doesn't distinguish between good and bad, beauty and ugly, that very quality - impartiality - of brahman is defined as good. I could have stopped with this to explain "akilaheya pratyanikam", but for, animal faeces! I tend to smile at this one, because it is very simple to answer this. What are we? We are just ugly beings wrapped up by an excellent skin. Can anyone see us and feel pleasant if we remove our skins? What is inside us? We are just made of achit - the Five elements. Don't we know that our blood stinks, our flesh stinks. Just because it is inside us does it mean we are good? All these things are bio-chemicals as the science calls them, and the five elements as our shastras call them. They have good, bad, pungent, stinking, pleasant and what not? All kind of smells. But they are just achit! It is a combination of them that make them likable or not for human beings. So, what is wrong in brahman being inside that? It makes no difference. The difference is only for the human beings. I cannot go and play in the mud while a pig can and a buffalo can. Why should I compare myself with brahman? For brahman, the pig, the buffalo or myself are all one and the same. These make up his shareera. My hands may feel that it is cleaner than my legs that are ugly. But for me, it doesn't make a difference. I don't treat my hands better than my leg for that. For brahman, we are the bodies and though we are for specific purpose and differ between us, the difference is not seen by the brahman. Remember! Brahman is impartial!!! I don't know whether this convinces the person who raised the question, I just thought I would share my thoughts. Learned persons, please correct me if I were wrong. Adiyen Ramanujadasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan >Bhashyam Raghunandan <rbhashyam >bhakti-list >bhakti-list >Re: brahman's pervasiveness in ugly matter >Mon, 19 Aug 2002 03:38:47 -0700 (PDT) > >Dear Sri Ramkumar, >I think for the Brahman, there is no distinction >between the goog and ugly matter. Sriman Narayana is >should be certainly present in all substances. Why >ugly matter, he should be present in those animals >which live on this ugly matter. He should be present >in those krimis in the ugly matter itself. According >to our philosophy there is no substance which is not a >shareera of the Brahman. >"Akila-heya-pratyaneekan" does not mean that he is not >present in ugly matter, but it means that he posses no >bad qualities. He is also called as "Apahathapapma" >which means that while he is all pervading, no dosha >of a specific substance will affect him in any way. >Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan. >Raghunandan >--- tg_ramkumar <tg_ram wrote: > > Bear with me on this stinker. > > > > To those that say "everything is verily brahman", > > "brahman is verily everything", > > "matter is a mode of brahman's existence", > > "brahman pervades everything" and such - > > > > Could you explain what you mean? > > > > What do you think of brahman's pervasiveness in > > despicable things > > such as animal faeces? > > > > Please do not ignore SrI-rAmAnuja's descriptions of > > the brahman > > such as "akhika-heya-pratyanIka", > > "samasta-vastu-vilakshaNa", > > "trividha-chetana-achetana-svarUpa-sthiti-pravRtti- > > bhEdam", "sakhaletara vilakshaNa", > > "aSesha-dosha-asamspRshTam". > > > > aDiyEn > > //Ramkumar > > > > >----------------------------- > - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH - >To Post a message, send it to: bhakti-list >Group Home: bhakti-list >Archives: http://ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/ > > >Your use of is subject to _______________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2002 Report Share Posted August 19, 2002 Om NamO nArAyaNAya. Recently, an Indian research group and an American firm have obtained a patent in the US for a drug prepared from Cow's urine. Mahatma Gandhi cleaned his own excretions routinely and expected many of his Ashram workers to do the same. Not only he did not feel repeleld, he thought and rightly so that it was equivalent of gold! It is part of the cycle as is said even in the giTa. /annA is from rain, and rain is from /yaJnA etc. Gandhiji translated /yaJnA as labor. That included farm work as a major and noble form of living. /nalam/tarum collai nAn kaNTukoNTEn nArAyaNA ennum nAmam. /anpuTan Visu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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