Free-will vs Pre-determination (poser-5)

[Guest guest]

SRIMATHE RAMANUJAYA NAMAHA.

 

Forenote:- “The most ignorant man is happy, and

likewise the most enlightened man – each in his own

fashion. But those who are midway, being neither

completely ignorant nor completely enlightened, are

wretched.”

-Vidura to Maitreya (Srimad Bhagavatham)

 

 

The analysis continues:-

 

Q-5 :-

# If everything proceeds as per the lord’s designs,

does it not amount to

pre-determination? Then where is the room for free

will?

 

 

The answer given:- (Sri Sriram’s mail)

 

Yes, and No. In the larger context, everything

proceeds according to Lord's

plan. He has plans for the good and He has plans for

the evil. And so things

take their own course. But it is the individual's

actions that determine the

plan he/she gets. The Lord does not *force* a

decision. He provides His

advice and support if asked for, stands back and lets

us choose. Just like

He did for Arjuna.

 

Our opinion:-

 

If it be said that ‘everything proceeds as per God’s

plan’, it is nothing but accepting determinism!! If

larger plans are assumed to be well-established, it

follows that smaller plans are subsidiary to the

larger plans –ie., actions at the smaller (micro)

level are tuned so as to fall in line with the plans

at the macro level!

 

Keeping ‘our’ opinions aside, shall we see what the

texts have got to say in this issue?

 

To begin with

Lets ask some questions.

 

Q-1 :- Does every thing in creation proceed in a

planned way?

 

Answer:-

Seems so.

Maitreya tells Vidura in srimad

Bhagavatham;-(book-iii, chap –ii)

 

“The present universe is but one of a series of worlds

that are past and of worlds that are to be. The cosmic

energy alternates between periods of potentiality and

of expression. The phase of potentiality is known as

dissolution; the phase of expression is known as

creation.”

 

Similar idea is expressed in other places in Srimad

Bhagavatham. Periodical happenings like creation,

progression and dissolution are taking place with

precision and plan. That is, if some event takes place

in the process of creation, it becomes possible to

deduce what will follow there after and so on.

 

Looking through our finite understanding, we, the

mortals with little knowledge are able to simulate and

take a peep into future to say that an asteroid is

going to hit us straight in the year 2019 or a comet,

(swift-tuttle) is going to bombard us in the year

2125. We have seen the such calculations have come

true in the past, like the collision of a comet

(shoemaker-levy) with jupiter.

 

If by some chance the asteroid that is expected to hit

in 2019 does not actually make the collision, it will

be seen that something else must have come into play

to change its course. That something might have evaded

our detection but must have been there in the scheme

of Macro/ cosmic occurrences. By narrating this all

what we want to tell is that the occurrences at the

cosmic level proceed in a methodical and in a

programmed way, even though we are not able to cognise

them.

 

But Massive Intelligence that He is, He contains in

Himself all that is to come. He spoke to Brahma in the

beginning, ‘I command thee, again create the world, as

thou hast often done in times of past.’ It is like

pressing the button of creation and things start

happening in methodical orderliness. All that is

needed to stir up the Lord who is resting in the

cosmic ocean with consciousness fully awake, is to be

somewhere near His vibration level of the satwa.

 

This must explain

- the ‘Ari-thuyil’ of the lord.

-This must explain

- why He is regarded simultaneously as the spectator

and the actor,

- why He is not attributed with activity though he is

the fountain of all activities.

 

 

Q-2:- If determinism is true, why can’t we know about

it?

 

Because it calls for an understanding at another

dimension, namely, the fourth dimension of space and

time. The problem is that we cannot look ‘back’ or

‘ahead’ with our present level capability of

three-dimensional outlook. It is like how our world

will look like for a two-dimensional being.

 

Assuming that a two-dimensional being which lives in

the surface of water happens to see a stick being

lowered into the water. The stick, thick at one end

and tapering at another, if gradually lowered, will be

perceived by the being as a ‘disc’ that suddenly

appeared (born) on the water surface and grew in size

and became extinct suddenly, in the way how it was

‘born’. The being had no way of knowing about the

stick above the surface and below the surface of

water. We, the human beings are with the same kind of

limitations to our understanding in matters pertaining

to the fourth dimension.

 

Q-3:- Then how to know about it?

 

By looking for clues in texts.

Fourth dimensional consciousness (trikaala darsitaa)is

something that ancient seers were fond of developing

by yogic powers.

 

That the Lord has that power is beyond dispute.

When He told Arjuna that He knows all His previous

janmas and those of Arjuna (BG 4-5)it only confirms

that He knows all the future janmas that He is going

to take (as also of others)which once again makes it

clear that from creation to dissolution, everything is

decided. (Needless to talk about god’s ability to know

everything. For argument’s sake, we have to say like

this)

 

Once again in verse 7-26 of the BG, the Lord

reiterates His knowledge about things that are going

to happen –another justification for pre-determined

destiny.

 

In other words, the action of a jiva that is going to

take place has already been known which follows that

such action can not be independent but be a part of

the grand design.

 

Q-4:- can we prove determinism by logical reasoning?

 

Yes. Determinism is possible from creation to

dissolution till such a time(!) that Time exists.

In the explanation of creation as given by Maitreya,

the universe is conceived as a space-time continuum in

which events take place. The division into past and

present has no analogy in space-time order. In fact it

is fallacious to say that events take place. They are

just there. We only come across them. It is a voyage

across the space-time continuum for the jiva which is

blemishless and in the nature of Brahman ‘na jaayathE

mriyathE va kadhachithu’.

 

But in the course of the journey when the jiva keeps

thinking more and more that ‘it’ experiences the

events, makes the events happen etc, that it makes

things complicated for itself.

 

This voyage can be depicted as space –time chart

(found in patanjali’s or Tantrics? We are unable to

quote the source) of Mahakala and Kalakrama.

Mahakala is the Transcedental Time starting from

creation of events (we say here, events, because

actions are related to space and time – for easy

understanding of this let us remember that we are

supposed to begin any/ every action with a sankalpa

with reference to place and time

–jumbhudweepE,bharatha varshE etc- as if to make it to

the records that such and such an action is done at

this point of time as a precedent to this /that action

or as result of this and that action)

 

And kalakrama is the sequential or empirical time

which tells about a particular point in the scheme of

Mahakala.

 

It is seen that mahakala stretches from the first

event ‘e’ that happened in time ‘t’ and ends up in e-n

at t-n.(with dissolution of Time-space)

As per karma theory, an event (say) e-5 at t-5

(kalakrama) is the result of e-4 that might have

happened at t-4 or even at t-3. In that case there is

determinism of e-5 at e-4 itself. The series of e

types and /at t types in the mahakala is what you call

the grand design which proceed as determined ones.

At the level of kalakrama, the e is just an event

impregnated with our abhilashas, efforts or what ever

you call/ attribute. At this level the effort is dear

to you as of your own making. But that it is only a

part of the design at mahakala.

 

This space –Time chart also explains how programming

of events for individual souls becomes possible when

they meet a collective destiny, say as happened at

Kurukshetra, Titanic or at WTC. It is marvelous

alignment of countless life-types to culminate in a

single type of occurrence. When such alignments can no

longer be held, the curtains are pulled down and

dissolution sets in.

 

Q-5:- How to justify this notion?

 

Bhagavad Ramanuja’s prayer to the Lord harps on this

issue - of what is in store – interpreted otherwise as

sanchita and aagaami karma.

 

In verses 10 &11 of Sharanagathi gadhyam Ramanuja

seeks blanket- pardon (amnesty?)for all actions that

have been done and that are going to be done (kriya

mANan, karishya maNamams cha) and the vipareetha

gyanam that had prevailed and that is going to

envelop (adhyapi varthamanam, varthishya mANam)him.

 

Ramanuja’s desperation to wriggle himself out of the

coils of karma of the three types are pointers to the

very non-escapability from the karma-Guna combination

that are pre-determinants of happenings in one’s life.

 

Someone raised questions about the relation between

the three types of karma and freewill.

There is no escape from prarabhdha or operative karma,

whose seed has sprung up and whose machinery has been

set in motion towards their fruition. Freewill has

little to do in mitigating this.

 

Sanchita or acumulating karma pertains to fruits that

are still lying latent ‘like seeds stocked up in a

granary for fruition’. Anytime they may be given

‘life’ and become operational. Aagaami pertains to

actions yet to be/contemplated to be done. Ramanuja

refers to all these in the gadhyam.

 

Relating these to the space -time chart discussed

above, there seems to exist some scope for freewill to

change them for the better.

 

Bur our observation leads us to tell that such changes

are not possible unless otherwise indicated in the

grand design of Maha kaala.

 

Reason no-1:-

If these can be changed by our freewill, Ramanuja need

not have asked for blanket pardon. By correcting

oneself at the Guna –mix, one could have changed it.

But that doesn’t seem to be under our control. That is

why, the prayer for pardon from an external agency

(God).

 

If it be said that Ramanuja asked for pardon as a

prapannan, it is replied that a prapannan need not

worry about these as they stand nullified the moment

prapatti is done.

It then follows that only god alone waives these

karma, not a jiva by means of his free-will/ action.

 

(To the question from Sow lakshmi whether there exists

any possibility to have freewill without being

connected with karma, our reply is that such a

situation grants Brahman-hood.

 

Scriptures speak of only two scenes for the jiva-

bondage and freedom from bondage. As long as in

bondage, freewill has no place. If freed from bondage,

you will not bother about freewill. That is a

condition of ‘Aham vishwam

bhuvanamapyabhawaam’(Tattriya upa)

 

Reason no-2:-

God alone is empowered to interfere in the working of

karma-Guna sambhandam, (dealt with in the mail on

Gita). The popular saying that one can win over

destiny (vidhiyai madhiyaal vellalaam) must be added

with a conditional clause, namely, ‘provided destiny

makes way for it’.(adharku vidhiyum edam koduththaal)

 

We have ample proof to say that Vidhi stands for

determinism in NDP.

 

#’avaravar vidhi vazhi adaya nindranarE’ (TVM –1-1-5)

 

# ‘Vaikuntham puguvadu mannavar vidhiyE..

‘vidhi vagai opugundanar ‘ endru…’ (TVM 10-9-9& 10)

the above one is said to have sprung from the azhwar

in parama bhakti – the dharshanam blessed upon him as

per vidhi / determinism/ or facilitated by God’s

grace?

 

 

Q-6:- Are there other sources to validate determinism?

 

Yes, ‘the science of light’, popularly kwon as

jyothisha is entirely dealing with time-space

continuum.

 

Jyothisha, (mundaka upanishad specifically asserts

that this is one of the basic, fundamental sciences of

vidya), a Vedanga developed by Vedic seers has well

laid rules and regualtions to ‘indicate’ (not predict-

for further details, refer Bheeshma-yudhishtra

sambhaashana, mahabharatham, Anusashana parvam) the

series of happenings at three karma levels of

kalakrama.

 

A clarification/forenote on jyothisha:-

Vedic sages were, by and large, men of practical

vision with creative ability. Sages like Parasara,

Vyasa, Jaimini, Bhrigu, suka and others were said to

have discussed /developed principles of Jyothisha and

discussed lives of many beings yet to be born, which

were documented as nAdi manuscripts.

 

They never taught the people of their time to bewail

over difficulties. They taught them to be up and

doing. They laid stress on doing one’s karma

dispassionately, and used Jyothisha for commencing

work at auspicious times for the success of the

actions. Their predictive jyothisha is an appreciation

of the academically possible/viable cognisability of

Future in the Mahakala.

 

Proofs from Jyothisha:-

 

# the birth chart calculated to depict the position of

planets at a particular second(s)is capable of telling

the previous as well as the next birth of the person.

The 5 th house is studied to tell about the next birth

& the happenings therein and the 9th house is studied

to tell about the previous birth. (jathaka phala

Deepika).

Separate horoscopes can be constructed for the

previous and next birth in this way. (a proof for

determinism)

 

# the nAdi astrology is brimming with lot of inputs in

understanding the working of karma and freewill. There

are some loose ends in relating some concepts in

astrology, but they are /may be due to our

limitations.

There is one particular aspect that has relevance to

the coming into operation of the sanchita karma:-

We find at times predictions going wrong which make us

believe that determinism is not 100% operational. In

addition to this, of all the known nAdi manuscripts,

saptharishi nAdi alone talks about propitiatory

actions to reap specific results. Such a possibility

also undermines determinism. Debates are going in

scholarly circles on this issue.

 

In our humble understanding, we attribute this anomaly

to destiny’s design to make alignments at certain

intervals.

To understand this better, let us take up the present

position of planet saturn which is said to have

transited to Gemini according to Drik ganitha, whereas

it continues to be in Vrishabha according to Vaakhya.

It is presumed that the whole lot of lakhs of persons

born in this cusp will face possibilities of

re-alignments-paving way for sanchita karma to fit in

the scheme of things as and if necessary. This

observation is the result certain level of study into

the subject and any further elaboration is beyond the

scope of this mail.(interested readers may write to us

for details)

 

It is like the video game example that appeared in the

list. There are time warps as one proceeds but unless

the player cleverly identifies them, he can not shift

to a higher level. Similarly the anomalies arising

from the differences in the position of the planets

gives a breather to the cosmic powers to make changes

in the scheme by accommodating sanchita karma. We have

proofs for this.

 

All that we wish to say is sanchita too can not be

controlled by freewill.It/part of it comes into

fruition in the present birth itself if vidhi makes

provision for it.

 

# another aspect of determinism that actually prompted

this writer to take a dip into the subject is the

shock that she experienced, while in the course of

studying nAdi manuscripts, it was found that she

didn’t even enjoy the minimal freewill in naming her

own child! Yes, invariably all nAdi manuscripts in

Tamil show the proper-nouns which baffles scholars.

This must have become possible by seers with yogic

powers who can peep into future.

 

The worst part of the shock was that this writer had

that name in mind (sort of incubation) for nearly 7

years before the child was born – a name that is at

the core of one of the main two concepts that

Ramanuja differed from Shankara- the name that

fascinated her due to her acquaintance with (some of)

Ramanuja’s philosophy.

It now seems to show that not only the name is

pre-determined but also the knowledge that preceded

the decision has not been reaped by her on her own

volition. Even the less than fistful of knowledge

that one must come to posses is pre-decided!(Srimad

Bhagavatham)

 

The initial shock gave place to helplessness, because

like sri sriram and many others who refuse to

undermine the scope for freewill, this writer also

underwent that mamakaaram. But just think about it.

When your body, the happenings and your own(?) jivan

are not yours, what use in telling that the will is

yours?

 

It is in this moment of helplessness that Gita comes

(fits in) to give us a clue of Hope.

 

The way shown by Gita is ‘surrender’ which is seen as

an act of freewill.

I beg to differ here for the last time.

 

Verse 18-62 speaks about surrender. Unto whom?

To the one who resides within (the preceding verse

18-61)

The one who resides within is ‘Brhaamayan’-the real

One who is controlling you. All these days you didn’t

seem to have identified Him. At least now you know

that He is the doer and therefore surrender all your

ego, mamakaaram, the so-called freewill etc to him.

Whether one had known this or not, it has always been

that He made things happen. Now after knowing Him in

you, acknowledge it –this seems to be the message.

 

But the ultimate message lies in the last verse, in

Sanchayan’s ‘TheLivu’

That where the Lord rules as YogEshwaran and where

Arjuna stands ready, there is victory etc. (yathra

yOgEshwara KrishnO, yathra partho dhanurdhra:)

The oft-repeated explanation for this is to see the

two as nara-narayana.

 

We try to qualify this further.

Look at the adjective to Arjuna – the Dhanur dhari.

YogEshwaran is present in every being (refer the verse

18-61&62). He is ever ready to help us. Only that we

have to be fully equipped like Arjuna. Equipped in

knowledge, in action and the accompanying necessary

attitudes, one must be in a state of preparedness.

He will run the show as the anchor –as the sarathy and

lead you to success –to neeti.

He disseminated the know-how and preparedness by His

will through sathsangh and other means.

Be awake and listen to His voice.

Your state of helplessness will be changed into

hopefulness..

 

.Poliga poliga poliga ..poyitru valluyir chbham…..

 

Kulam thaangu saathigal naalilum kheezh ehindu,

eththanai

Nalam thaan elaatha shandaala shandaalargalagilum,

Valam thaangu chakaraththannal mani vannarkaL endruL

Kalandhar, ADIYAR THAM ADIYAR EM ADIGALE

 

-aana

-jayasree nAmadhEya

adiyavaL.

 

Quote of the mail:-

 

“Knowledge brings freedom, but the mere intellect

gives no knowledge of Thee.

Those who devote themselves to Thy service come to

know thee by Thy grace.

May I be even the least of Thy devotees,

and may I devote my life to Thy service alone!’

 

-Brahma’s prayer to Krishna in Srimad Bhagavatham.

 

--------concluded--------

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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