nitya-kainkarya & jIva's kartRtva

[Guest guest]

SrImate rAmAnujAya nama:

 

Just shooting from the hip -

 

jIva-s' ability to act is real, though it derives from

and is subservient to the brahman.

SrI rAmAnjua describes it as 'tad-aayatta-kartRtva'

in gItA-bhAshya.

 

If the jIva had no ability to act, the doctrine of

devotional service (ie nitya-kainkarya) would make no sense.

 

 

rAmAnuja-dAsan

//Ramkumar

 

 

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[Guest guest]

--- "Ramkumar T.G." <tg_ram wrote:

>

> SrImate rAmAnujAya nama:

>

> Just shooting from the hip -

>

> jIva-s' ability to act is real, though it derives from

> and is subservient to the brahman.

> SrI rAmAnjua describes it as 'tad-aayatta-kartRtva'

> in gItA-bhAshya.

>

> If the jIva had no ability to act, the doctrine of

> devotional service (ie nitya-kainkarya) would make no sense.

 

 

True. curious to know - What is Bhagavaan Ramanuja's interpretations

for the two following slokas:

 

PrakRiti eva ca karmaani kriya maanaani sarvashhaH|

yaH pasyati tat aatmaanam akartaaram saH pasyati||

 

and

 

prakR^itaiH kriyamaaNaani guNaiH karmaaNi sarvashaH|

ahankaaravimuuDhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate||

 

Pranaams

Sadananda

 

=====

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[Guest guest]

Sri

Srimathe nigamantha mahadesikaya namaha

 

-

"kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada

<bhakti-list>

Tuesday, September 10, 2002 1:12 PM

Re: nitya-kainkarya & jIva's kartRtva

> True. curious to know - What is Bhagavaan Ramanuja's interpretations

> for the two following slokas:

 

My notes are from The Gita Bhasya of Ramanuja translated by Prof.M R

Sampathkumaran. There is coherency of meaning in both as explained by

bhashyakarar.

> PrakRiti eva ca karmaani kriya maanaani sarvashhaH|

> yaH pasyati tat aatmaanam akartaaram saH pasyati||

 

Bh G (13.29)

 

He who sees actions universally as being done by the prakriti alone and the

**self similarly as not the agent** sees (the self as it is).

 

He who sees all actions as done by the prakriti, in the manner explained in

the statement, "The prakriti is said to be responsible for agency in

relation to the body and the sense organs (Bh G 13.20); who sees accordingly

that the self, being of the form of knowledge (Vedanta Desika in Tatparya

Chandrika notices another reading, ***jnAtakaram*** for ***jnAnakaram*** in

the bhAshya text) is not the agent: and who sees that this association with

the prakriti, it's ruling over the same and it's experience of the pleasure

and pain resulting from this are all brought about by ignorance in the form

of karma - he sees indeed the self as it is really is.

 

Bh G 13.20

 

kArye kArana krutatve hetuhu prakruthiruchhyate

purushashusukhadukhAnAm bhOOktrutve heturuchhyate ||

 

The prakriti is said to be responsible for agency in relation to the body

(kArya) and the sense organs (karanA). The self is said to be responsible

for the experiencing of pleasure and pain.

 

The kArya(or the effect) is the body. The kAranA are the sense organs of

perception and action, along with the internal organ of perception. In their

being performers of work, the prakriti , rule over by the self, is alone

respnsible.

 

Sri Shankara reads kArya karana kartritve, though he also notices karanA as

a variant reading. kArya, in his view, is the body: The kArana are the ten

sense organis, manas, buddhi and ahankAra. The alternative reading also may

support this interpretation. Or it may mean that the kArya refers to the

sixteen principles which are modifications, namely the ten sense organs,

manas and the five objects of senses. The kArana whould be the seven

principles each of which is a modification of the five tanmataras. These are

called prakriti-vikritis. Tatparya Chandrika, written by Vedanta Desika also

notices another interpretaion that the karya is the five elements and

tanmataras and the kArana, the ten senses, the manas, the buddhi and the

ahankAra. Both wors, *kArana* and karana may be taken to mean senses.

 

The meaning is that their activities, which are the means of experience have

their basis in the prakriti which has evolved into the form of the body

ruled over by the self. In regard to the self, there is only the state of

being the ruler. Whit reference to this, the aphorisms, "The agent of

actions is the individual self) beacause the scripture has to be supportive

(Vedanta Sutras II.3.33) and others have been taught. The agency of the self

is really it's being responsible for the activity of the will in ruling over

the body. The self, while in association with prakriti, is responsible for

the experience of pleasure and pain. The meaning is that it is the seat of

experience of pleasure and pain.

 

Thus the distiction in the functions of prakriti and the self when in mutual

association has been stated. Our actions are physiscal and determined by

physiological needs. "But that which experiences pleasure and pain cannot be

the prakriti which is jada or inert. Experience has no meaning except in

relation to one who is conscious of it. The power to enjoy and experience

belongs to the soul, while the raw matter of experience owes it's origin to

the association of the body with the soul" The self prompts and experiences,

the body works. Sri Krishna now proceeds to state that the self is the cause

of the experience of pleasure and pain arising from the sense objects, even

though, by itself, it's experience of itself is nothing but joy.

> prakR^itaiH kriyamaaNaani guNaiH karmaaNi sarvashaH|

> ahankaaravimuuDhaatmaa kartaaham iti manyate||

 

Prerequiste understanding : It is very well established by the entire

prasthana traya that prakriti is made up of Gunas just as tissues are made

up of cells and organs are made up of tissues.

 

(Bh G 3.27)

 

Actions are being done in every way by the gunAs of prakriti. He whose

natures is led astray by egoism thinks, "I am the agent".

 

(I could not post the series on Gita Sara last weekend as I was caught

neckdeep in assingments. Will post it over this week). One should also

understand that the concepts of gnAtratva, kratatva and bhogtratva are not

easy to understand. Traditional nearning under the feet of an acharya is the

only way out.

 

The Bhagavad Gita is to be understood under five broad topics called Artha

Panchakam by Ramanuja. These are nature of God, the nature of the individual

soul, the state of final emancipation and the beautitude, the proper way of

attaiment and finally the realisation.

 

Ramanuja's Gita Bhasya is more of an exposition and explanation of the Gita

based on concepts established in the Prasthana Traya. Tatparya Chandrika of

Vedanta Desika is the latter's commentary of the Gita Bhasya and a very

lengthy explanation with elements of polemics and dialectics.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan,

 

Malolan Cadambi