Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 Dear Sri Sadagopan, Yes,it is really strange and a pain for us that we seem to know so much of this Stranger?? from the scriptures and works of acharyas and alwars,but today when we ask ourselves whether we have seen him or found him?,we are not in a position to give a definite and convincing reply though we can arrive at logical conclusions or answer based on our faith in the Lord generated in us from our own experiences in life. Now,coming back to your question :- Would anybody tell me how to find this Stranger? The Lord or the very Stranger himself has given the solution to this problem in his own works and incarnations. In his work,the Bhagavad geetha the Lord has stated the reason for this problem in the 7th chapter as :- TEXT 13 tribhir guna-mayair bhavair ebhih sarvam idam jagat mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam Meaning :- Bound by the three gunas of prakriti the whole world does not know me who am above these modes of prakriti and inexhaustible. But,he has given the solution in the following slokhas: In the 11 th chapter, TEXT 54 bhaktya tv ananyaya sakya aham evam-vidho 'rjuna jnatum drastum ca tattvena pravestum ca parantapa and 18th chapter, TEXT 55 bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad-anantaram where both slokhas point in unmistakable terms that by "Bhakti" one can surely know the Lord,see the Lord and experience the cummunion with the Lord by transcending the gunas of prakriti. Now this Bhakti characterized by a continuous longing only for the Bhagavan on the part of the Bhagavtha rises to such heights that the Lord himself graces the Bhagavatha and appears before him. The following avataras are proofs for this :- 1. Narasimha avatara for Prahaladha. 2. Lord Narayana appearing for Dhruva's devotion. 3. Sri Rama meeting Shabari. 4. In Krishna avatara he has appeared before and graced many devotees and the list continues. In short,from the above discussion,we can come to the following conclusion :- when a person obtaining knowledge of god "seeks" to know and see god in reality,the very seeker at some point in his process of seeking the lord becomes the sought by the Lord himself or the Lord himself appears or finds the devotee trying to find him. Sri Krishnaarpanamasthu Suresh B.N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2002 Report Share Posted October 8, 2002 --- bindinganavale suresh <suresh_b_n wrote: > Yes,it is really strange and a > pain for us that we seem to know so much of this > Stranger?? > from the scriptures and works of acharyas and > alwars,but today when we ask ourselves whether we > have > seen him or found him?,we are not in a position to > give a definite and convincing reply though we can > arrive at logical conclusions or answer based on our > faith in the Lord generated in us from our own > experiences in life. Actually for most people they are not bothered who the "Stranger" is and for some including myself even though with little knowledge about the "Stranger" we are not looking at the "Stranger" who is the friend of all living entities. The Stranger is situated in the heart of all living entities (iswarah sarva bhutanam hrddese arjuna tishati, BG Chap 18). The Upanisads states that within the heart of every living entity there reside both the jiva and the paramatma just like 2 birds sitting in the tree. One of the bird (we the jiva) is very busy eating the fruits from the tree (enjoying our senses) while the other bird paramata) is just watching us. Although the 2 birds are in the same tree, the bird that is eating (we the jiva) is fully busy and engrossed in eating and enjoying the fruits of the tree, too busy to even look at the "Stranger" nearby who is witnessing us. If by any chance or the bird that is eating (we the jiva) turns our face to our the "Stranger" who is actually our friend and recognises his glories, the bird (we the jiva) will be delivered from all anxieties. As mentioned earlier the "Stranger" is actually our friend and the jiva's forgetfulness of the relationship with the paramatma causes the jiva (the bird) from one tree to another (transmigrating). Although we (most of us) know that we should stop eating and look at the "Stranger" but instead of doing it we continue to eat and eat. Bala. ===== M. Balakrishnan H/P: 016-4838038 http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/District/9622/resbala.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2002 Report Share Posted October 9, 2002 Dear Sri Sadagopan, nAyamAtmA pravachEna labhyaha namEdhayA na bahunA srutEna yamEvaiSha vruNutE tEna labhyaha tasmaiva AtmA vivruNutE tanUm svAm -- From munDakOpaniShat The ParamAtmA, is not reached either by reflection ( manana ), meditation ( mEdhA ) or largely hearing the scriptures. Whom ever HE chooses, by him alone HE is reached. To him alone this paramAtmA reveals HIS form. Also it is stated that the one who thinks that he knows, does not know. And the one who thinks that He does not know, knows actually. Interestingly, the following two passages which you quoted were used by Sri Ramanuja to establish the tatva trayam (ISwara, cit and acit). The body-soul relationship between ISwara and the jIvas/prakruti was clearly stated here. The first one about the prakruti-paramAtma relationship and the second one stating the Atma-paramAtma relationship. “ Yam prithivyAm tishttan prithivya antarO yam prithivI na vEda yasya prithivI sharIram ya: prithivIm antarO yamayati sa ta AtmA antaryAmi amruta:” and “Ya Atmani tishttan Atmana: antarO yam AtmA na vEda yasya AtmA sharIram ya AtmAnam antarO yamayati sa ta AtmA antaryAmi amruta:” So the the above quotes which explain HIS being above the reach of our knowledge, also at the same time give HIS relation with us and provide the biggest proof about His uniqueness and existence in the cit and acit. And thus they conquer the arguments about HIS non-existence and even the non-existence of what we see here. As Sri Sudarshan had mentioned, He can be found in two ways : By excluding every thing (nEti nEti) and by including everything (as everything is pervaded by Him). The path of exclusion is a difficult one, as the things that we know are a few in number. Forgetting about that stranger, there are many things in this world which are out of the reach of our knowleadge. People doing research can best explain the challenges and frustrations they face, while trying to understand why something behaves only in that particular way. This prakruti with all its incomprehensible phenomena is described as the mAya of that stranger. So, we cannot even fully understand what we can see and feel with our sense organs. What to say about the one who cannot be seen and who is the source of all this we see. So, lets limit ourselves humbly to what we see. When we see a huge ocean, a big waterfall, a gigantic volcano, the limitless sky, the galaxy of countless stars in the sky and also realize that they all (included) have that stranger as their inner controller, we will realize HIM in a better way. So, the inclusion theory of Sri ALWAr is the appropriate means than the exclusion theory. When I see the stars in the sky, I remain dumbfounded. How can I ever know about these. Similarly, how can we know about all of this prakruti itself. Supposing we know about all of this somehow, then how can we know ourselves (the next level). Can we realize phisically our own form? (May be I should not use the word "form"?? - but I limit it to that, as it would take more paras). So, the knowing what to be known is actual knowledge. Knowing that, all of this we know and all of that we do not know, has that unknown stranger as its source, as its inner controller is the knowledge worth knowing. (Knowing one, by which everything is known). But this is all at a partial theoritical level. When we see something really huge, really amazing, we at once come to know that it is not the work of a soul like us. Each and every person, tree, animal etc in this world are distinct from each other. So many combinations cannot be generated and managed by someone like us. So, we look upto that supreme power who is the cause of all of these. For all these to exist like this, obviously HE should exist. Because, without HIM, non amongst us is capable of this creation..So, thru all these means, we know that the stranger is above all of these, HE is distinct from these and HE is their inner controller. But...the question is we would like to either visualize HIM or see HIM as we see other things in this world (inspite of being incapable of seeing ourselves). This tvara is there in everyone of us. It arises initially due to our extreme inquisitive nature and its main origin is explained as the inseperable relation we have with HIM. yamEvaiSha vruNutE tEna labhyaha - But who is the one whom HE chooses. (That person can see HIM - to that person alone paramAtma reveals HIS form, which cannot be seen with the human eyes). Is this choice arbitrary. It cannot be as we see that in HIS system everything has a reason. The answer is that to HIS devotees, who incessantly think about HIM, who long for HIM, who long for HIS service, who care for all others in a loving manner knowing very well that all of them are related to HIM. But....Is this devotion our own earning...No, cannot be...It can only come thru HIM again, thru an AchArya... So, HE can be attained by devotion, which is given by HIM again. That makes it more difficult. Its like who came first... But we see devoted people in this world. We see both the egg and the hen (though we do not know how it all started). So, it offers hope. Somewhere a beginning is there for everything. Once the beginning is there, the progress is there - Just like we do not know how the life started, but it has started and it is continuing. Thus devotion is given by HIM and HE nourishes it and causes its fructification. Though this entire process appears impracticable (like who came first), we are seeing it (like we see both the hen and the chicken). It means that it is true. It is possible (not to us, but for that stranger). Though HE is a stranger to us, we are not strangers to HIM. The body does not know the soul, but the soul knows its body. So, HE will take care of us and reveal Himself to us, when HE feels that its appropriate. Jai Sriman Narayana Maruthi Ramanuja Das Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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