[t'vengadam] The Stranger

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Sadagopan,

Yes,it is really strange and a pain

for us that we seem to know so much of this Stranger??

from the scriptures and works of acharyas and

alwars,but today when we ask ourselves whether we have

seen him or found him?,we are not in a position to

give a definite and convincing reply though we can

arrive at logical conclusions or answer based on our

faith in the Lord generated in us from our own

experiences in life.

 

Now,coming back to your question :-

 

Would anybody tell me how to find this Stranger?

 

The Lord or the very Stranger himself has given the

solution to this problem in his own works and

incarnations.

 

In his work,the Bhagavad geetha the Lord has stated

the reason for this problem in the 7th chapter as :-

 

TEXT 13

 

tribhir guna-mayair bhavair

ebhih sarvam idam jagat

mohitam nabhijanati

mam ebhyah param avyayam

 

Meaning :- Bound by the three gunas of prakriti the

whole world does not know me who am above these modes

of prakriti and inexhaustible.

 

But,he has given the solution in the following

slokhas:

 

In the 11 th chapter, TEXT 54

 

bhaktya tv ananyaya sakya

aham evam-vidho 'rjuna

jnatum drastum ca tattvena

pravestum ca parantapa

 

and

 

18th chapter, TEXT 55

 

bhaktya mam abhijanati

yavan yas casmi tattvatah

tato mam tattvato jnatva

visate tad-anantaram

 

where both slokhas point in unmistakable terms that by

"Bhakti" one can surely know the Lord,see the Lord and

experience the cummunion with the Lord by transcending

the gunas of prakriti.

 

Now this Bhakti characterized by a continuous longing

only for the Bhagavan on the part of the Bhagavtha

rises to such heights that the Lord himself graces the

Bhagavatha and appears before him.

 

The following avataras are proofs for this :-

1. Narasimha avatara for Prahaladha.

2. Lord Narayana appearing for Dhruva's devotion.

3. Sri Rama meeting Shabari.

4. In Krishna avatara he has appeared before and

graced many devotees and the list continues.

 

In short,from the above discussion,we can come to the

following conclusion :-

when a person obtaining knowledge of god "seeks" to

know and see god in reality,the very seeker at some

point in his process of seeking the lord becomes the

sought by the Lord himself or the Lord himself appears

or finds the devotee trying to find him.

 

Sri Krishnaarpanamasthu

Suresh B.N.

[Guest guest]

--- bindinganavale suresh <suresh_b_n

wrote:

> Yes,it is really strange and a

> pain for us that we seem to know so much of this

> Stranger??

> from the scriptures and works of acharyas and

> alwars,but today when we ask ourselves whether we

> have

> seen him or found him?,we are not in a position to

> give a definite and convincing reply though we can

> arrive at logical conclusions or answer based on our

> faith in the Lord generated in us from our own

> experiences in life.

 

Actually for most people they are not bothered who the

"Stranger" is and for some including myself even

though with little knowledge about the "Stranger" we

are not looking at the "Stranger" who is the friend of

all living entities. The Stranger is situated in the

heart of all living entities (iswarah sarva bhutanam

hrddese arjuna tishati, BG Chap 18).

 

The Upanisads states that within the heart of every

living entity there reside both the jiva and the

paramatma just like 2 birds sitting in the tree. One

of the bird (we the jiva) is very busy eating the

fruits from the tree (enjoying our senses) while the

other bird paramata) is just watching us. Although the

2 birds are in the same tree, the bird that is eating

(we the jiva) is fully busy and engrossed in eating

and enjoying the fruits of the tree, too busy to even

look at the "Stranger" nearby who is witnessing us.

 

If by any chance or the bird that is eating (we the

jiva) turns our face to our the "Stranger" who is

actually our friend and recognises his glories, the

bird (we the jiva) will be delivered from all

anxieties.

 

As mentioned earlier the "Stranger" is actually our

friend and the jiva's forgetfulness of the

relationship with the paramatma causes the jiva (the

bird) from one tree to another (transmigrating).

 

Although we (most of us) know that we should stop

eating and look at the "Stranger" but instead of doing

it we continue to eat and eat.

 

Bala.

 

 

 

 

=====

 

M. Balakrishnan

 

H/P: 016-4838038

 

http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/District/9622/resbala.html

[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Sadagopan,

nAyamAtmA pravachEna labhyaha

 

namEdhayA na bahunA srutEna

 

yamEvaiSha vruNutE tEna labhyaha

 

tasmaiva AtmA vivruNutE tanUm svAm -- From munDakOpaniShat

 

The ParamAtmA, is not reached either by reflection ( manana ), meditation (

mEdhA ) or largely hearing the scriptures. Whom ever HE chooses, by him alone HE

is reached. To him alone this paramAtmA reveals HIS form.

 

Also it is stated that the one who thinks that he knows, does not know. And the

one who thinks that He does not know, knows actually.

 

Interestingly, the following two passages which you quoted were used by Sri

Ramanuja to establish the tatva trayam (ISwara, cit and acit). The body-soul

relationship between ISwara and the jIvas/prakruti was clearly stated here. The

first one about the prakruti-paramAtma relationship and the second one stating

the Atma-paramAtma relationship.

 

“ Yam prithivyAm tishttan prithivya antarO yam prithivI na vEda yasya prithivI

sharIram ya: prithivIm antarO yamayati sa ta AtmA antaryAmi amruta:”

 

and

“Ya Atmani tishttan Atmana: antarO yam AtmA na vEda yasya AtmA sharIram ya

AtmAnam antarO yamayati sa ta AtmA antaryAmi amruta:”

So the the above quotes which explain HIS being above the reach of our

knowledge, also at the same time give HIS relation with us and provide the

biggest proof about His uniqueness and existence in the cit and acit. And thus

they conquer the arguments about HIS non-existence and even the non-existence of

what we see here.

As Sri Sudarshan had mentioned, He can be found in two ways : By excluding every

thing (nEti nEti) and by including everything (as everything is pervaded by

Him).

The path of exclusion is a difficult one, as the things that we know are a few

in number. Forgetting about that stranger, there are many things in this world

which are out of the reach of our knowleadge. People doing research can best

explain the challenges and frustrations they face, while trying to understand

why something behaves only in that particular way. This prakruti with all its

incomprehensible phenomena is described as the mAya of that stranger. So, we

cannot even fully understand what we can see and feel with our sense organs.

What to say about the one who cannot be seen and who is the source of all this

we see.

So, lets limit ourselves humbly to what we see. When we see a huge ocean, a big

waterfall, a gigantic volcano, the limitless sky, the galaxy of countless stars

in the sky and also realize that they all (included) have that stranger as their

inner controller, we will realize HIM in a better way. So, the inclusion theory

of Sri ALWAr is the appropriate means than the exclusion theory.

When I see the stars in the sky, I remain dumbfounded. How can I ever know about

these. Similarly, how can we know about all of this prakruti itself. Supposing

we know about all of this somehow, then how can we know ourselves (the next

level). Can we realize phisically our own form? (May be I should not use the

word "form"?? - but I limit it to that, as it would take more paras).

So, the knowing what to be known is actual knowledge. Knowing that, all of this

we know and all of that we do not know, has that unknown stranger as its source,

as its inner controller is the knowledge worth knowing. (Knowing one, by which

everything is known).

But this is all at a partial theoritical level. When we see something really

huge, really amazing, we at once come to know that it is not the work of a soul

like us. Each and every person, tree, animal etc in this world are distinct from

each other. So many combinations cannot be generated and managed by someone like

us. So, we look upto that supreme power who is the cause of all of these. For

all these to exist like this, obviously HE should exist. Because, without HIM,

non amongst us is capable of this creation..So, thru all these means, we know

that the stranger is above all of these, HE is distinct from these and HE is

their inner controller.

But...the question is we would like to either visualize HIM or see HIM as we see

other things in this world (inspite of being incapable of seeing ourselves).

This tvara is there in everyone of us. It arises initially due to our extreme

inquisitive nature and its main origin is explained as the inseperable relation

we have with HIM.

 

yamEvaiSha vruNutE tEna labhyaha - But who is the one whom HE chooses. (That

person can see HIM - to that person alone paramAtma reveals HIS form, which

cannot be seen with the human eyes).

 

Is this choice arbitrary. It cannot be as we see that in HIS system everything

has a reason. The answer is that to HIS devotees, who incessantly think about

HIM, who long for HIM, who long for HIS service, who care for all others in a

loving manner knowing very well that all of them are related to HIM.

 

But....Is this devotion our own earning...No, cannot be...It can only come thru

HIM again, thru an AchArya...

 

So, HE can be attained by devotion, which is given by HIM again. That makes it

more difficult. Its like who came first...

 

But we see devoted people in this world. We see both the egg and the hen (though

we do not know how it all started).

 

So, it offers hope. Somewhere a beginning is there for everything. Once the

beginning is there, the progress is there - Just like we do not know how the

life started, but it has started and it is continuing.

 

Thus devotion is given by HIM and HE nourishes it and causes its fructification.

 

Though this entire process appears impracticable (like who came first), we are

seeing it (like we see both the hen and the chicken). It means that it is true.

It is possible (not to us, but for that stranger).

 

Though HE is a stranger to us, we are not strangers to HIM. The body does not

know the soul, but the soul knows its body. So, HE will take care of us and

reveal Himself to us, when HE feels that its appropriate.

 

Jai Sriman Narayana

 

Maruthi Ramanuja Das