Answers to Sri Mani + Info repeated again (Anuvaadham)+ Some history

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Dear ShrI Venkataraghavan:

 

You had mentioned that Appayya Dikshitar failed to prove the following

hypothesis. Do you have any reference (a non SrI Vaishnava):

>1) Tried to Identify Siva as ParaBramhan(SivaParathva Vaadham)

>2) Tried to Introduce another Bramhan or Paramathma Higher than Siva or

>Naarayana.(Thureeya Vaadham)

>3) Tried to Put Siva and Naarayanaa in the same plane.(Samathva Vaadham)

>4) Tried to identify Siva and Naarayana( I-kiyaa Vaadham)

>5) Wrote a Stotra on Dhevaperumal ie Lord Varadarajan and also wrote

>Nayamayuka Maalika.

 

Thanks.

 

 

S. Vijayaraghavan

Buffalo/NY

 

 

 

 

>"K.S.Venkataraghavan" <ksvenkat

>bhakti-list

>bhakti-list

>Answers to Sri Mani + Info repeated again (Anuvaadham)+ Some

>history

>Wed, 23 Oct 2002 14:17:02 -0700

>

>Dear Sri Mani

>

>My answer was to Sri Visu who mentioned it was a latter interpolation

>that Visnu was identified with Narayana

>

>As I havent done any traditional Kaalkshebam on Vedartha Sangraham I am

>not in any capacity to comment or quote from the same.

>

>But whatever "kriukal"(Scribbling) I did was from mere Textual Knowledge

>(from reading books) which is really dangerous..

>

>(I had to take a chance and still dont know how many abathams I have

>commited and that I am going to commit.)

>

>Mani as you said the Riks under consideration doesnt really indicate the

>Supremecy of Vishnu unquivocally.

>

>But let us analyse this.

>

>Agni is partyaksa devatha.. The offerings to devathas are done through

>agni and hence channelized through agni and offereings that are made to

>all devathas go to Vishnu. Which is why it is stated that Agni is lowest

>of all devas and Vishnu the highest and that Yagna Purushan is Vishnu.

>

>That is the "Lakshyaartham" of the above Rik..

>

>Note if textual meaning is found against the meanings of other

>statements in Vedas one must inclined to "Lakshyartham"(Conceptual

>Meaning).

>

>******

>You said...

>******

> >>

>Recall that Vishnu in the traditional grouping is one of the

>Adityas, and therefore one of the solar deities, and can be

>classified with Surya for this purpose.

> >>

>

>I am not sure about such an interpretation. However I can recall that

>traidtional Baashyams conclude that Paramapurushan is been praised as

>the one who is the centre and highest in the Aadithya Mandalam. I will

>confirm this though with exact Paramanas and Baashyams though.

>

>(Which is why Parama Vaideekas... hold that Gaayathri Manthra indicates

>and Praises Parama Purusha who is none other than Vishnu/Naarayana)

>

>In Vedas you have many "Purovadas" and "Anuvadhas".. That is (the

>meaning of a sentance is repeated again elsewhere in another sentance

>(in another form)and still retaining and implying the same meaning as

>before..

>

>One can identify many such instances/statements in Vedas.

>

>Sree Baashyakaara turned to Statements which explicitly imply the

>Parathvam of Vishnu(as you said) and which identify the Supreme diety it

>with Narayanaa.

>

>That is to say that Parama Purushan who is Narayaana is the deity who is

>popularly known as Vishnu so he turned to such statements and leaned

>more towards those statements (which are nearly innumerable) that hold

>Parama Purushan , Paramaathmaa as Naarayanaa .

>

>Whatever the reason for which you kindled this discussion........ I

>believe and am under impression I have answered (a doubt??) you..

>

>Neverthless pardon Me as I am still not yet convinced with whatever

>answer I msyelf have provided with to (because of the reason I cited

>earlier) and also that there could be more "Samaadhaanams" if

>supposedly(or for sure that) your claim is true for which I am sure that

>I must do some homework.

>

>Period...

>-------

>According to Meemmsa Nyaayam any "Saamanya Sabdham" must end in "Visesha

>Sabdam".

>

>There are many generic statements/terms in Vedas that indicates the one

>who is fit to be worshiped..

>

>Vedas call the worhsiped(the one fit to be worshiped rather) as Param

>tathvam Para Brammam Paramathma with generic statements/terms.

>

>And with each of such generic statements a special name/term is

>mentioned many times.

>

>This special name/term is none other than Narayana and this is used

>along with all generic statements/terms (mentioned before) many times.

>

>The questions that araises are. as follows

>

>What does this term Narayanaa mean??

>

>Who is this Narayana??

>

>Why cant we indicate any one by inferring the term Narayanan

>(after splitting the name and arriving at the meaning)??

>

>Th answer is......as rules of Panini doesnt allow this .. as the way the

>term Naarayanan is spelt it could only be a Proper noun (Roodi Sabdham)

>and can never be a Common noun(Youwkeegam)

>

>**********

>Some History

>**********

>It is good that Sri Visu raised this because this surely exposes the

>Strength of Vishnu Parathvam.

>

>As Sri Visu did (analyzing names standing in different planes and

>MISSING the obvious) Sree Appaya Deekshitha tried the same few centuries

>before.

>

>An example of one his few "Kainkaryams" is quoted here as follows.

>

>Infer the meaning "NaarayanaParam Bramham" as "Naarayanath Param

>Bramham" (Trying to prooove that Para Bramham is different and higher

>than Naarayana) But couldnt establish as in Maho Upanishdh the same is

>stated as "Naarayanaha ParamBramaha."

>

>Sree Appaya Deekshitha tried to the follwing and procedded from one to

>the other as mentioned below as he failed to achieve the objective (

>(and dont miss what he did atlast..)

>

>1) Tried to Identify Siva as ParaBramhan(SivaParathva Vaadham)

>2) Tried to Introduce another Bramhan or Paramathma Higher than Siva or

>Naarayana.(Thureeya Vaadham)

>3) Tried to Put Siva and Naarayanaa in the same plane.(Samathva Vaadham)

>4) Tried to identify Siva and Naarayana( I-kiyaa Vaadham)

>5) Wrote a Stotra on Dhevaperumal ie Lord Varadarajan and also wrote

>Nayamayuka Maalika.

>

>(Or would some one bounce back and say He took/did the last one first

>and revrsed the order?)

>

>regards

>Venkataraaghava Dhaasan

>

>

>

>

>-----------------------------

> - SrImate rAmAnujAya namaH -

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>

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sri Mani

 

My answer was to Sri Visu who mentioned it was a latter interpolation

that Visnu was identified with Narayana

 

As I havent done any traditional Kaalkshebam on Vedartha Sangraham I am

not in any capacity to comment or quote from the same.

 

But whatever "kriukal"(Scribbling) I did was from mere Textual Knowledge

(from reading books) which is really dangerous..

 

(I had to take a chance and still dont know how many abathams I have

commited and that I am going to commit.)

 

Mani as you said the Riks under consideration doesnt really indicate the

Supremecy of Vishnu unquivocally.

 

But let us analyse this.

 

Agni is partyaksa devatha.. The offerings to devathas are done through

agni and hence channelized through agni and offereings that are made to

all devathas go to Vishnu. Which is why it is stated that Agni is lowest

of all devas and Vishnu the highest and that Yagna Purushan is Vishnu.

 

That is the "Lakshyaartham" of the above Rik..

 

Note if textual meaning is found against the meanings of other

statements in Vedas one must inclined to "Lakshyartham"(Conceptual Meaning).

 

******

You said...

******

>>

Recall that Vishnu in the traditional grouping is one of the

Adityas, and therefore one of the solar deities, and can be

classified with Surya for this purpose.

>>

 

I am not sure about such an interpretation. However I can recall that

traidtional Baashyams conclude that Paramapurushan is been praised as

the one who is the centre and highest in the Aadithya Mandalam. I will

confirm this though with exact Paramanas and Baashyams though.

 

(Which is why Parama Vaideekas... hold that Gaayathri Manthra indicates

and Praises Parama Purusha who is none other than Vishnu/Naarayana)

 

In Vedas you have many "Purovadas" and "Anuvadhas".. That is (the

meaning of a sentance is repeated again elsewhere in another sentance

(in another form)and still retaining and implying the same meaning as

before..

 

One can identify many such instances/statements in Vedas.

 

Sree Baashyakaara turned to Statements which explicitly imply the

Parathvam of Vishnu(as you said) and which identify the Supreme diety it

with Narayanaa.

 

That is to say that Parama Purushan who is Narayaana is the deity who is

popularly known as Vishnu so he turned to such statements and leaned

more towards those statements (which are nearly innumerable) that hold

Parama Purushan , Paramaathmaa as Naarayanaa .

 

Whatever the reason for which you kindled this discussion........ I

believe and am under impression I have answered (a doubt??) you..

 

Neverthless pardon Me as I am still not yet convinced with whatever

answer I msyelf have provided with to (because of the reason I cited

earlier) and also that there could be more "Samaadhaanams" if

supposedly(or for sure that) your claim is true for which I am sure that

I must do some homework.

 

Period...

-------

According to Meemmsa Nyaayam any "Saamanya Sabdham" must end in "Visesha

Sabdam".

 

There are many generic statements/terms in Vedas that indicates the one

who is fit to be worshiped..

 

Vedas call the worhsiped(the one fit to be worshiped rather) as Param

tathvam Para Brammam Paramathma with generic statements/terms.

 

And with each of such generic statements a special name/term is

mentioned many times.

 

This special name/term is none other than Narayana and this is used

along with all generic statements/terms (mentioned before) many times.

 

The questions that araises are. as follows

 

What does this term Narayanaa mean??

 

Who is this Narayana??

 

Why cant we indicate any one by inferring the term Narayanan

(after splitting the name and arriving at the meaning)??

 

Th answer is......as rules of Panini doesnt allow this .. as the way the

term Naarayanan is spelt it could only be a Proper noun (Roodi Sabdham)

and can never be a Common noun(Youwkeegam)

 

**********

Some History

**********

It is good that Sri Visu raised this because this surely exposes the

Strength of Vishnu Parathvam.

 

As Sri Visu did (analyzing names standing in different planes and

MISSING the obvious) Sree Appaya Deekshitha tried the same few centuries

before.

 

An example of one his few "Kainkaryams" is quoted here as follows.

 

Infer the meaning "NaarayanaParam Bramham" as "Naarayanath Param

Bramham" (Trying to prooove that Para Bramham is different and higher

than Naarayana) But couldnt establish as in Maho Upanishdh the same is

stated as "Naarayanaha ParamBramaha."

 

Sree Appaya Deekshitha tried to the follwing and procedded from one to

the other as mentioned below as he failed to achieve the objective (

(and dont miss what he did atlast..)

 

1) Tried to Identify Siva as ParaBramhan(SivaParathva Vaadham)

2) Tried to Introduce another Bramhan or Paramathma Higher than Siva or

Naarayana.(Thureeya Vaadham)

3) Tried to Put Siva and Naarayanaa in the same plane.(Samathva Vaadham)

4) Tried to identify Siva and Naarayana( I-kiyaa Vaadham)

5) Wrote a Stotra on Dhevaperumal ie Lord Varadarajan and also wrote

Nayamayuka Maalika.

 

(Or would some one bounce back and say He took/did the last one first

and revrsed the order?)

 

regards

Venkataraaghava Dhaasan

[Guest guest]

-

"Vijayaraghavan Chakravarthy" <vijayaraghavan_s

> You had mentioned that Appayya Dikshitar failed to prove the following

> hypothesis. Do you have any reference (a non SrI Vaishnava):

 

 

Saunaka addresses the test for paradevata as to satisfying the condition of

antarvyApti and bahirvyApti in the last mandala of his commentary on the Rig

Veda titled 'Brhad Devata'. Will write more on this soon. Saunaka is the

sage of Srimad Bhagavatam fame.

 

Regards,

 

Malolan Cadambi