Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 Dear Shri Harikrishnan, Thanks for your excellent posting on Ramayanam and i have learnt a lot thru that. I have following doubts for which i request you to clarify. Can you give the reference sloka or verse where vali accepted that he coveted Ruma w/o sugriva.? In both valmiki and kamban's work. When Rama sent emissary twice (hanuman and angada) to the known culprit who abducted his wife sita, why he did not give a chance to vali?. He could have sent same hanuman as emissary and requested Vali to release Ruma and to give the status to sugriva..Even in krishnavataram also we see that our emperumaan personally takes the position of emissary and asks duriyodana for the rights of pandavas. Why did Rama fail to do for Vali alone? Regards, Nanmaaran Hari Krishnan <harikrishnan wrote:Dear Sri Nanmaaran, The fact that Vali coveted the wife of Sugriva is very clearly mentioned in Kamban. The version varies from that of Valmiki here. Neither Sugriva, nor his ambassador, Hanuman, disclose the details to Rama in the first instance - or during the first meeting. They simply state that Sugriva needs protection from Vali. The first meeting between Rama and Sugriva is very interesting. 'I need your help,' says Rama. 'Kabanda told me about you. I have come to solicit your assistance,' he says. Instead of answering Rama, Sugriva seeks redressal of his own grievance. 'My brother is tormenting me. I need your protection,' he says and Rama, without another word assures him of it, being the 'ocean of mercy' that he is. Regards, Sincerely, Hari Krishnan Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 Dear Vaidhyanatha Iyer, Happy to receive email from you. I understand your contention of ramavatara was only to kill ravana. IF so these are the questions sprout from my heart. 1. Hypothesis of an individual has to be substantiated by a “lakshana” . In pathanjal yoga sutra, sage gives lakshana for parama purusha as “klesa karmavibaga aasaiyaihee aparaamrushta purusha visheshahaa eswaraha” which can be translated as “ the parama purusha will never be affected in TRIVIAS of time (Past, Present, Future) by a) action and reaction, b) desires c) agonies and pleasures. So if we take Rama as incarnation of bhagawan, then your point cannot stand. 2. In Yutha kaandam 18th sarga, sloka 35 of Valmiki Ramayan, Rama says AnaiyayEnam harishretra datham asya abhayam maya. VibishanO vaa sukriva ethivaa raavanaswayam By this sloka, we understand that he was ready to extend the saranagathi even to Ravana. So your point on somehow eliminating ravana does not hold fit. Kindly elucidate. Regards, Nanmaaran "vaidyanathiyer <vaidyanathiyer" <vaidyanathiyer wrote:dear friend, glad that you asked this question. why didn't rama send hanuman as emissery,to find out the culprit.why didn't he give a chance to vali? you are right rama should have done that,but then ramayana or ramavatharam has no meaning.supposing rama found out that vali did not abduct ruma,then what will happen to sugriva. as it is as per kabanda he told rama to make fried with sugriva to find sita.vali as we all know can't be won over in a direct battle.even ravana faced defeat.if rama make friendship with vali then what will be the requirement of fighting with ravana.so in every avatar there are compromises done to protect rhe basic necessity.the idea of making friend with sugriva is to have proper search with hanuman becomig the hero and rama killing ravana.vali would have achieved it with out a battle,which he said so to rama.good keep asking questions. cde bvnbhakti-list, Nanmaaran wrote: > Dear Shri Harikrishnan, > Thanks for your excellent posting on Ramayanam and i have learnt a lot thru that. I have following doubts for which i request you to clarify. > Can you give the reference sloka or verse where vali accepted that he coveted Ruma w/o sugriva.? In both valmiki and kamban's work. > When Rama sent emissary twice (hanuman and angada) to the known culprit who abducted his wife sita, why he did not give a chance to vali?. He could have sent same hanuman as emissary and requested Vali to release Ruma and to give the status to sugriva..Even in krishnavataram also we see that our emperumaan personally takes the position of emissary and asks duriyodana for the rights of pandavas. Why did Rama fail to do for Vali alone? > Regards, > Nanmaaran > Hari Krishnan wrote:Dear Sri Nanmaaran, > > The fact that Vali coveted the wife of Sugriva is very clearly mentioned in Kamban. The version varies from that of Valmiki here. Neither Sugriva, nor his ambassador, Hanuman, disclose the details to Rama in the first instance - or during the first meeting. They simply state that Sugriva needs protection from Vali. The first meeting between Rama and Sugriva is very interesting. 'I need your help,' says Rama. 'Kabanda told me about you. I have come to solicit your assistance,' he says. Instead of answering Rama, Sugriva seeks redressal of his own grievance. 'My brother is tormenting me. I need your protection,' he says and Rama, without another word assures him of it, being the 'ocean of mercy' that he is. > > > Regards, > > Sincerely, > Hari Krishnan > > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Dear Sir, I think that you are referring to Valmiki Ramayanam while making this statement.As I have already quoted, Rama was ready to give charanaagathi to even Ravana..Then why did he not give a chance to Vali? This was my question. With your view, it puts Sri Rama as partial as he punished vali for coveting ruma w/o sugriva but left Sugriva when he did the same thing to Thara after vali's death. If you say that it is very common among animals, i have following questions. 1. Then what was the reason for rama to eliminate vali? 2. Can an animal give logical arguments as vali gives to rama after he was shot and can an animal become vedic expert?(as vali is depicted?) Let us not deface lord rama by our narrow approach. I strongly beleive that Srimad Ramayanam has lot of hidden facts and when we see the 7 kaandams as a garland, kishkinda kandam forms the centre of it and should have some great secret in this incident. Regards, Nanmaaran "Lakshmi Narasimhan <nrusimhan" <nrusimhan wrote:Srimathe Ramanujaya Namaha Dear Shri Swamin, I missed out one more point. >He could have sent same hanuman as emissary and requested Vali to >release Ruma and to give the status to sugriva.. Rama's aim was never to restore ruma to Sugriva. It was a common nature of the animals i.e monkeys in this case, to grab other's spouses. Rama promised that he would protect Sugriva and that was the only goal("Sahrudeva prapannaya... abhayam...dhadhaam", if one surrenders, I will give the protection is what the gist of Ramavataram). That, Ruma would be back, would have just been a consequence. Sarva Aparadhaan Kshamasva Yatheendra Pravanam Vandhe RAMYA Jaamaatharam Munim Adiyen Ramanuja Dasan, Lakshmi Narasimhan Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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