Soul after death and before next birth

[Guest guest]

Dear members,

I would like to know the meaning of the various rituals performed

after death for 13 days. In particular, I would like to know the

viewpoint of the scriptures about the transmigration of the soul

after death. According to the scriptures, will the soul leave the

body immediately after death or will the soul be in the vicinity of

the body after death till 10th /13th day?

 

Eagerly awaiting your erudite replies

 

Your servant

 

Sriram N. Kizhakkemadam

[Guest guest]

I am also looking for the answer but not yet got to right one.

If you know please let me know with poofs.

 

--previous message--

 

"Sriram.N.Kizhakkemadam <snk110" <snk110 wrote:

Dear members,

I would like to know the meaning of the various rituals performed

after death for 13 days. In particular, I would like to know the

viewpoint of the scriptures about the transmigration of the soul

after death. According to the scriptures, will the soul leave the

body immediately after death or will the soul be in the vicinity of

the body after death till 10th /13th day?

 

Eagerly awaiting your erudite replies

 

Your servant

 

Sriram N. Kizhakkemadam

[Guest guest]

a short answer to your question.

 

1) if the soul has not attained moksha, it is in some other body but every

soul will attain a position called pretha sthana after death. if the rituals

are performed, like depositing dollars in one country and getting rupees in

other country, the central post office Lord Srihari will take care of

appeasing that dead person's soul in any place it is. this is the shastraic

answer.

 

2) if the soul got delivered and is in moksha, it can take any number of

forms. eakadha bhavati .... shatada bhavati.. this means it can take 100

forms. just to receive ritual offerings it can come even though it will not

since it is happy with god.

 

however, the person has to do the ritual to get rid of his karmas or offer

thanks to the dead relative. or else this person will have pratyavaya dosha

or ill effects of not doing his karma. ritual is nothing but loans to be

repaid since that relative helped get the body.

similarly all devatas like yama etc. are thanked to have given various parts

of the body of the deceased.

 

Incidentally this is the first question I asked when I was 19 and when I

first met my preceptor in the cremation grounds.

 

asmad gurubhyo namah.

 

Krishna

 

 

trilok banshal [trilok1976]

Wednesday, February 19, 2003 10:41 AM

bhakti-list

Re: Soul after death and before next birth

 

 

I am also looking for the answer but not yet got to right one.

If you know please let me know with poofs.

 

--previous message--

 

"Sriram.N.Kizhakkemadam <snk110" <snk110 wrote:

Dear members,

I would like to know the meaning of the various rituals performed

after death for 13 days. In particular, I would like to know the

viewpoint of the scriptures about the transmigration of the soul

after death. According to the scriptures, will the soul leave the

body immediately after death or will the soul be in the vicinity of

the body after death till 10th /13th day?

 

Eagerly awaiting your erudite replies

 

Your servant

 

Sriram N. Kizhakkemadam

[Guest guest]

In addition to Krishna Kalale's informative reply,

I would like to add that for the person of wisdom

(the 'jnAni' in the Gita's parlance) the ascent to

liberation begins as soon as life is lost in the

conventional sense. The jiva is led along the

path of light to Vaikuntha from its erstwhile

residence in the heart of the body by the Supreme Self

who also resides in the heart and who graces the

jiva in this final stage (hArda-anugRhItaH -- Brahma

Sutra 4.2.x). The journey out of the body and into

the state of Vaikuntha takes thirteen days. On the

thirteenth day it is held that the jnAni attains

communion with the Supreme Self (Brahma-sayujya).

 

Yet, as Krishna has pointed out, the attainment of

Brahma-sayujya is not dependent on the performance

of the funeral rites by the deceased's survivors.

The former is purely between the jiva and the Supreme

Self whereas the latter is a duty of the embodied

survivors.

 

Mani

[Guest guest]

>

> Mani Varadarajan <mani

> Saturday, February 22, 2003 2:25 AM

> thirteenth day it is held that the jnAni attains

> communion with the Supreme Self (Brahma-sayujya).

 

How does Vishishtadvaita explain sAyujya? The general conception is that

it is aikya with Brahman (in some form of entering Him) and the very

term is supportive of such a conception.

 

dhanyavAdAH,

Krishna

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Mani and Shri Krishna,

I would like to thank you for your replies. But, some questions

still persist.

Shri Mani had said : "The journey out of the body and into the state

of Vaikuntha

takes thirteen days. On the thirteenth day it is held that the jnAni

attains

communion with the Supreme Self (Brahma-sayujya)".

1) If the jiva does not get liberated, will the jiva be as a pretha

for the 13 days as hinted by Shri Krishna?

Where will the jiva reside during those 13 days? Can you please point

out the scriptural

references for the same.

 

2)Between death and the next birth for a bound jiva, will a jiva, who

has committed sins be subjected to torture in a hell or similar such

place before getting a body? If so, what is the criteria to decide

the quantum of the karma to be experienced between bodily transitions

and in subsequent bodies?

 

Both the above questions arose after my discussion with a friend who

contended that after death the soul stays within the house, that the

10th day ceremony of offering food without salt is to make the person

feel sad and the 13th day ceremony of feasting is to make the pretha

feel jealous and leave the house to seek another body.

 

I would be very thankful to you to enlighten me regarding these

questions from the standpoint of scriptures.

 

Your servant

 

k.n.sriram

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

Soul leaving body after death? inner meaning of the final rites for 13 days

?

My humble view , whether we do the rites or not , the Soul is at the

disposal of Shreeman Narayana according to its karmas.

 

If you do the ceremonies & shraaddham with shraddha then you are performing

a good karma.,for the benefit of the departed soul. That benefit will

definitely accrue to that soul. You are helping yourself and the departed.

For this purpose the mantras are used. Manthra is nothing but good thoughts

with Divine feelings transformed into words. If the jeeva faces any

obstacles, then these mantras with Divine's grace can overcome them and the

Jeeva will be benefited by that. Even while a person is living we pray for

his/ her welfare. These rites can be considered equivalent to that also. It

seems Sanyasin perform their own Shraardham before taking sanyasam. There

are all kinds options available.

 

Regarding transmigration of soul after death, it is said in Kathoupanishad

that some souls enter womb to have body , others become plant, just

according to their work and knowledge.

 

Possibly we would have known this story- Raja Bharat was a great King ,and

with tapas, he became a "Rajarishi". He was attached to a deer. Then he was

born as deer. But it seems because of his earlier sadhana , he remembered

the knowledge he had gained in his previous life though he was in deer's

body now. Next , he was born as a Brahmin, a realized person. The jeeva

keeps evolving up and down, just as we see ups and downs during our

lifetime. . But finally it has to evolve to the Higher State of reaching

Vaikuntam.

 

Vedas are the only proof. I don't know which Veda etc. We should believe in

them. But some people say " I have faith , but I have questions also". That

means he does not have total faith.

 

The bottom line is " what we sow we reap".

 

I would like to know more from learned members.

E & O E

REGARDS

V K Vijayaraghavan

[Guest guest]

I may have been incorrect in saying that the jiva

takes 13 days to attain Vaikuntha after death.

A friend informs me that the jiva's ascent to Brahma-sayujya

via the path of light may be immediate, or beyond

our notions of time. The belief is that the funeral

rituals are still performed because there is a

pitr-devata who will be around (not the dead body's

jiva but a different being) to accept offerings

made by the survivors and hence it is obligatory

for them to do so. I will see if I can confirm

this and get you the full story.

 

Thanks

Mani

[Guest guest]

bhakti-list, "Krishna K" <kadirik@i...> wrote:

> How does Vishishtadvaita explain sAyujya? The general conception

is that

> it is aikya with Brahman (in some form of entering Him) and the

very

> term is supportive of such a conception.

 

This is off the cuff so I can't cite shastras

for you, but sAyujya means communion with Brahman

and absorption in Brahma-ananda-anubhava, but not

absorption to the extent of total loss of identity.

It carries a connotation of intimate union as would

be had by two lovers. I don't think there is much

support for it meaning aikya as it is derived

from sa + yuj, where the latter dhAtu indicates

a binding together.

 

Though it is not a principal upanishad, the term

sAyujya is found in the oft-recited Narayana Upanishad.

The ashTAkshara-mantropAsaka is therein promised sAyujya

with Adi Narayana ('nArAyaNa-sAyujyam avApnoti').

 

with regards,

ramanuja dasa

Mani

[Guest guest]

>The belief is that the funeral

> rituals are still performed because there is a

> pitr-devata who will be around (not the dead body's

> jiva but a different being) to accept offerings

 

What is a pitr-devata? I have not been able to perfectly understand the

status of a pitr after the jiiva sheds of it's mortal coils.

I do know that the Garuda purAna is recited during the antima samskAram-s.

 

I would appreciate a detailed exposition on this matter. Thanks in advance.

 

Regards,

 

Malolan