Guest guest Posted September 2, 1998 Report Share Posted September 2, 1998 Gregory Goode wrote: > > Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote: > > >Shaman, religious specialist, originally found in hunting-gathering > >cultures, which are loosely structured, technologically simple, and > >homogeneous. > > Thanks for looking this up! Doesn't look like these forms are especialy > non-dualistic, does it? > True. But there's a specific derived form of it that was developed by the Toltecs who were, in turn, the seers within the early Mayan community. It was made known by anthropologist Carlos Castaneda, as the philosophy of his teacher, the so-called "Yaqui Indian" Juan Matus (note, should technically be Yaqui American). The philosophy expounds ideas such as: 1. an ordering of existence in terms of 'tonal' and 'nagual,' corresponding [as exact as practicable] to saguna and nirguna brahman respectively. 2. the idea that if/when an individual--male or female-- realizes the nagual, they are referred to as nagual themselves (just as if a jiva realizes brahman is also called brahman or brahmajnani). 3. provides various methods for achieving this state, such as a) 'stopping the internal dialogue' (tantamount to purifying the mind [suddha chit] and ultimately destroying the mind [manonasa]); b) the process of 'losing self-importance' and 'eracing personal history' (de-fusing the ahamkara); c) engaging the 'doing of not-doing' or 'acting without believing,' described as 'acting just for the hell of it, without expecting rewards' (nishkama karma yoga). (One will notice that all these focus on the idea of re-absorption of the limited self [tonal] into its substratum [nagual]). **** If anyone's interested, the works expounding the essence of this approach are A SEPARATE REALITY and especially TALES OF POWER by Carlos Castaneda. Most libraries carry them. An overview of these teachings can be found here: ftp://ftp.earth.com/pub/archive/cc/castaneda-overview I don't ascribe to everything conveyed in Castaneda's works; however, one cannot help but acknowledge the many important parallels with advaita. namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 1998 Report Share Posted September 2, 1998 At 11:29 AM 9/2/98 -0400, f. maiello wrote: >"f. maiello" <egodust >But there's a specific derived form of it that >was developed by the Toltecs who were, in turn, the seers >within the early Mayan community. Thanks, I never knew A SEPARATE REALITY was about non-dualism. How did the Toltec teachings get transmitted to Castaneda's generation, the Maya's not being a really continuous society? Orally through the surviving Mayas, or via texts? --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1998 Report Share Posted September 3, 1998 > > f. maiello [sMTP:egodust] > Wednesday, September 02, 1998 6:29 PM > advaitin > Re: Shamanism > > "f. maiello" <egodust > > Gregory Goode wrote: > > > > Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote: > > > > >Shaman, religious specialist, originally found in hunting-gathering > > >cultures, which are loosely structured, technologically simple, and > > >homogeneous. > > > > Thanks for looking this up Doesn't look like these forms are > especialy > > non-dualistic, does it? > > > > True. But there's a specific derived form of it that > was developed by the Toltecs who were, in turn, the seers > within the early Mayan community. It was made known by > anthropologist Carlos Castaneda, as the philosophy of his > teacher, the so-called "Yaqui Indian" Juan Matus (note, > should technically be Yaqui American). > [---Madhava---] > > Dear Greg and Maiello, > Hari Om > > I am in doubt. I think, I should agree that Shamanism is a > non-dualistic form. > > You may be right in assuming that these are not non-dualisitc forms. > Because, the same thing is stated in Bhagawad Geeta:- > > yAMti dEva vratAn dEvA, pitRUn yAMti pitRUvratAH > bhootAni yAMti bhootEjyAH, yAMti madyAjinOpi mAM > > Those who adore the demi-gods reach them, those who adore pitrus > (fore-fathers) reach them, those who adore the spirits reach them, and > those who adore me reach me only. > > Keeping the above statement in mind, we can classify the Shamanism as > Spirit worshiping. > > (2) In order to attain the highest one should carry out his duties > (niyata karma). And it is said, in eeshOpanishad, that one should > aspire to live 100 years while performing the karma. > > kurvannEvEha karmANi jijee vishEtccataM samAnAH > EvaM tvai nAnyadhEtOsti nakarma lipyatE nare || > > With out performing the karma one can never attain the highest, is the > reiteration in Geeta: > -na karaNA manAraMbhAt naishkarmyaM pushuSOSnutE > > Another quiestion is striking my mind. Isn't Shamanism a karma? > If it is a karma, according to our non-dualistic guide books, Shamans > are in the right path. They will reach the highest through that way. > In that sense, each and every path is leading them towards > non-dualism... > > Any clarifications? > > > Best Regards, > Madhava (I think I confused more :-)) Turumella > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1998 Report Share Posted September 3, 1998 Madhava, At 10:38 AM 9/3/98 +0300, Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote: >> Another quiestion is striking my mind. Isn't Shamanism a karma? >> If it is a karma, according to our non-dualistic guide books, Shamans >> are in the right path. They will reach the highest through that way. >> In that sense, each and every path is leading them towards >> non-dualism... I quite agree with this idea, that each and every path leads to non-dualism. If Brahman or Consciousness is all there is, then there is truly no other goal or destination. On the other hand, some paths make it explicit that this is what they teach. Like Advaita Vedanta, Zen, Taoism, some Christian mysticism, etc. Even the Upanishads or the Bhagavad Gita can be used to espouse dualism. Some teachers hold that the Bhagavad Gita espouses pure karma yoga. Even your quote of the Isa Upanishad below, >And it is said, in eeshOpanishad, that one should > aspire to live 100 years while performing the karma. could be used by some teachers to teach karma yoga. Even so, the earnest aspirant will find only non-dualism wherever he looks! --Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 1998 Report Share Posted September 3, 1998 Gregory Goode wrote: > > Thanks, I never knew A SEPARATE REALITY was about non-dualism. How did the > Toltec teachings get transmitted to Castaneda's generation, the Maya's not > being a really continuous society? Orally through the surviving Mayas, or > via texts? > A SEPARATE REALITY is just the setup for the nondual teaching found in TALES OF POWER. In one of his later books (either AN EAGLE'S GIFT or THE FIRE FROM WITHIN) he talks about the ancestry of this philosophy dating back to the Toltecs, which was preserved through word of mouth. namaste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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