Bhajan & janna ( kabalah & adwaita)

[Guest guest]

"Ram Chandran" <chandranram

>mpw6678

> .......................

> now, i remember reading with interest allan's post which briefly >

compared ishvara to brahman by claiming that their respective >

"worship," which is via bhakti or reason respectively, amounts to > the

same problem of a "thorn which must be discarded."

> but wonder myself about the problem of ishvara and bhakti. if it's >

acceptable to understand reason as a process which leads to but > isn't

a part of the absolute, then my opinion tells me that it's >

unprofitable to develop a hierarchy of processes in which one thorn > is

better than another...........

>maxwell.

--------

 

Pranam !

I try to read all the postings of vedanta even though very few I understand, I

am very greatfull to all of you. Since lately I am encouraged that I should

also take my opportunities to ask question or doubt without hesitation of my

language or mistakes. I feel like asking one , I also admit that your level of

discussion is very haighten & my question is so below at the base yet I know

you will kindly Help me.

I am reading Bhagbat Darshan part 2 of Swami Akhandananda Sarasoti & He is

describing the nature of Jana & Bhakti, I will try to translate in english ,

Pl. pardon me my poor english.

Loot, As long as there is a disease so long the medicine needs to be taken.

When the disease is cured no medicine is required to be taken. Another example

is If there is a big river & you have to go across, you will need to use the

boat, after you go across you do not need the boat any more. When you are

walking on the road, you may require to walk on shoes, When you reached your

destination (Thakurbadi) , no shoes is re.

(This is what I meant to bring in your presence here)

Sri Bshonath Chakrabarti had spoken addressing to the Janni,

"Like you find the procedure to give up ( Let go) your knowledge

weapon,(Jannaastra) In the same manner can you find the procedure of letting

go or giving up the Bhajanastra ?

When you don't have knowledge then you to do Bhajan , After you have

knowledge

then also you have to do Bhajan. Bhajan will always remain to do. janna is

only to cure the disease of ajanna & Medicine of the disease.

Please help me to understand is not Bhakti & Bhajan always continues ?

"Bag gadgada drabate yesse chittam rudattevichanm hasati kochichha .

Billaajja udgaeti nritatte cha madbhagtiukto bhubanam punati."Bhagbatam 10/24

 

Swami ji also said some where"Yogena dharmena atmanam punati". Yoga & Dharma

will purify the self & the knowledge will help to remove the abidya & purify

the self. This is right . but ' Bhakti yukto Bhubanam punati' One with bhakti

will purify the 14 Bhuban & all the lokas. Bhakti is Bisarpani. It spread all

over.

 

I do not mean to see any less of janni, Lord Krishna has said in Bhagbat geeta

Janni twatmaiva te matam" & some where in 7/17 Bhagbat Geeta also lord

says:-

"Tesam janni nityeyukta ekabhaktirbisissayte

priyo hi janninoterthamaham sa cha mama priye." Lord himself comes in the form

of Janni & Guru.

Since I find for myself Bhakiti seems to be the way for me but at the

same time , even though I don't have enough reach to understand janna yet I

find my mind is very attached to it.

My Dandabat pranam to all revered gurus here in the list .

I beg your pardon for mistakes in expression.

Raju

[Guest guest]

my best greetings. i admire reverentially the insights of the advaitin list's

members, and please forgive my trespassing on a delicate subject regarding which

my experience is so insignificant as to render my opinion rightfully distasteful

to those of better, more genuine understanding. i apologize for talking at

length while only wanting to gain undertanding and not having it.

 

to me, it's plausible to see gita 14.26 as a place at which bhakti appears at

least comparable to jnana: mam cha yo vyabhicharena bhaktiyogena sevate / sa

gunan samatityaitan brahmabhuyaya kalpate. the problem, i suppose, is how you

take kalpate, but to my small abilities, it looks clear that nirguna brahman is

attainable via bhakti.

 

please excuse me for the following comments which are coming from inexperience.

there's the view of bhakti as a ladder which is discarded either for jnana or

after attaining the absolute. freeing oneself from identification with the

material body, mind, intelligence, ego means becoming fully conscious of one's

identity with the supreme brahman, and since bhakti can be applied only to

brahman read in the samsara chakra as ishvara, there's a kind of subservience of

bhakti to jnana because it's impossible to identify oneself with ishvara whereas

one's self is brahman, the "object" of jnana. to me, it's evident that the

brahman of jnana is objectified by its linguistic nature. i feel that one

objectification, by jnana, is as useful or useless as any other, say in bhakti.

 

on this issue, i've happily and respectfully read the postings of ramchandra and

raju and am unable to approach their insights. i understand that once outside

the well, the ladder or rope is no longer needed; however, i enjoy sri

ramakrishna's insight that to escape the well, a ladder will do as nicely as a

rope or a bamboo pole. each is left in the well by its respective user. the

absolute is all that is. brahman satyam, jagat mithya. in light of this, my

limited understanding feels that to remove one thorn, another thorn is not

necessarily needed, especially when all thorns work to (re)move another object

and not to transcend objects. the worldly feeling that a thorn must be removed

is the only reason any notion of a thorn, or that one thorn is more efficient

than another, exists. to me, a hierarchy of thorns seems unprofitable.

 

thank you for your bearing my intrusions on the advaitin list. i respectfully

request your patience with the lower quality of them. if it's interesting to

anyone, i'll look to find the citations from shankara on bhakti which are in the

pedagogical book, << samkara and enlightenment >>.

 

maxwell.

[Guest guest]

Harih Om,

 

Maxwell wrote:

>if it's interesting to anyone, i'll look to find the citations from

shankara on bhakti which are in the pedagogical book, << samkara and

>enlightenment >>.

 

Please do so.

 

Thanks,

Vishvarupananda