tat and tvaM

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Shri Shankara discusses the mahAvAkya "tat tvam asi" in His vAkyavr^tti.

I am presently studying this book of 53 verses, which, in my view,

explains this mahAvAkya beautifully and to my great delight. In my

first-go of this book, it occurred to me that of recognizing or

understanding (not intellectually, but beyond intellectual understanding)

tat and tvam, tvam understanding and attributing properly is the more

difficult one.

 

Do members agree with this ?

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

Dehendriya manah prANAhamkr^tibhyo vilakshaNah

projghitAsheshha shhaDbhAvavikAra stvaM padAbhidah

Shri Shankara in vAkyavr^tti

Totally distinct from body, senses, mind, prANa, and ego is that which

is the SELF; therefore it is absolutely free from the six-modifications,

which material things must naturally undergo. This Self is the

indicative meaning of the term "thou" (tvam).

------

[Guest guest]

Greetings Gummuluru:

 

Thanks for your thoughtful comments on tat tvam asi. The recognition

happens when we renounce materialism. For example if we can recognize

beauty, happiness and peace without using the materialistic yardstick,

we can understand 'tat tvam asi!' This is the true human nature and

we can see all beings in our own self and own self in all beings! With

this spiritual vision, our intellectual perception of others disappears

and we can recognize beauty, happiness and peace without attributes. I

believe that any attribute such as "jeevanmukta" neither necessary nor

helpful in recognizing tat tvam asi. All that we are capable of

explaining is our intellectual (materialistic) understanding! We have to

get out of this loop for realizing Brahman!

 

Note: Sanyasi is the one who renounce materialism and we have to be a

sanyasi to recognize tat tvam asi!

 

Harih Om

--

Ram V. Chandran

Burke, VA

 

Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy wrote

> ........, it occurred to me that of recognizing or

> understanding (not intellectually, but beyond intellectual understanding)

> tat and tvam, tvam understanding and attributing properly is the more

> difficult one.

>

> Do members agree with this ?

>

[Guest guest]

I just wanted share my experience. I read this book "dayamruta geetaa

tarangini", lectures on Bhagawat Geeta by Swami Dayananda Saraswati.

And fortunately for me it happened to be one of the very first books I

read on Advaita almost 10 years back.

 

In his book Swami Dayanandagi explains the concept of "tatvamasi" in a

very logical way. And also It is crystal clear. It made a beginner

like me understand; and I felt that the concept can't be explained any

more easier than this. In my opinion, it drives away any sort of doubt

we get regarding the mahavakya.

 

Regards, Madhava

 

>

> Gummuluru Murthy [sMTP:gmurthy]

> Monday, December 07, 1998 2:46 PM

> advaitin

> tat and tvaM

>

> Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

>

>

> Namaste.

>

> Shri Shankara discusses the mahAvAkya "tat tvam asi" in His

> vAkyavr^tti.

> I am presently studying this book of 53 verses, which, in my view,

> explains this mahAvAkya beautifully and to my great delight. In my

> first-go of this book, it occurred to me that of recognizing or

> understanding (not intellectually, but beyond intellectual

> understanding)

> tat and tvam, tvam understanding and attributing properly is the more

> difficult one.

>

> Do members agree with this ?

>

> Regards

> Gummuluru Murthy

> ----

> --

> Dehendriya manah prANAhamkr^tibhyo vilakshaNah

> projghitAsheshha shhaDbhAvavikAra stvaM padAbhidah

> Shri Shankara in vAkyavr^tti

> Totally distinct from body, senses, mind, prANa, and ego is that which

> is the SELF; therefore it is absolutely free from the

> six-modifications,

> which material things must naturally undergo. This Self is the

> indicative meaning of the term "thou" (tvam).

> ----

> --

----

> --

> To from this mailing list, or to change your subscription

> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and

> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.

> ----

> --

> Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy, its true meaning,

> profundity, richness and beauty with the focus on the non-duality

> between mind and matter

[Guest guest]

Greetings Gummuluru:

 

The question that you have raised has also been answered by Adi

Sankaracharya in Dakshinamurthy Sloka. The enclosed commentaries by

Swami Gabhirananda and Swami Chinmayananda conatin the answer in greater

details.

I want to thank Sridhar for permitting me to post the message to the

list members. Let us take this opportunity to welcome Sridhar who has

also d to this list.

 

Harih Om.

--

Ram V. Chandran

Burke, VA

 

HYMN TO SRI DAKSHINAMURTHY of Adi Sankaracharya (Author:

Sridhar Pootheri)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ohm. Desirous of Moksha (complete freedom-physical, mental and

spiritual),

I seek refuge in that self-effulgent One, who projected Brahma at the

beginning of creation and revealed the meaning of the Vedas to him, and

whose inspiration (alone) turns my understanding towards the Atman.

May peace-physical, mental and spiritual-be on us for ever.

 

By Swami Gabhirananda By Swami Chinmayananda

 

1. The universe is like a city 1. He who experience at the

time

reflected in a mirror-seen inside of realization his own immutable

but really outside of it. And it Self-in which the Self alone

plays

is again, as in a dream, an inside as the universe of names and

forms,

phenomenon, appearing outside but like a city seen in a mirror,

due

really inside. The Truth or Original to the maya power as though

is the Supreme Brahman, the one produced outside, as in a dream,

without a second. One's Atman is Its to him, the divine teacher,

reflection seen through the media Sri Dakshinamurthy, is this

of senses, mind and intellect. The prostration.

identity of the Supreme Brahman and

one's Atman is understood on self-

illumination. He by whose grace that

illumination comes to me-to that

Dakshinamurthy, the Supreme Being,

who is embodied in the auspicious

and benign Guru, I offer my profound

salutation.

 

2. He in whom this universe, prior 2. He who, like a juggler or a

to its projection, was potentially Yogi, unrolls this universe just

present like a tree in a seed, and by out of His own free-will-the

whom it was wrought to its multiform universe, which before creation

by the magic, as it were, of His own remained unmanifest like the

will or in the manner of a great Yogi future tree in a seed and has

out of His own power-to that later on projected Himself out

to

Dakshinamurthy, the Supreme Being, be the world of endless variety,

embodied in the auspicious and benign due to the delusory play of time

Guru, I offer my profound salutation. and space, both products of

Maya....

to Him, the divine teacher,

Sri Dakshinamurthy, is this

prostration.

 

3. He by whose light the universe, 3. He whose manifestations -

which

which is unreal, appears as almost are themselves nothing but the

real and who graciously teaches the Reality-appear as the objects of

truth of Brahman (to the disciples the world; He, who imparts to

seeking refuge in him) and who is those who have surrendered to

Him,

realized through the comprehension direct enlightenment, through

the

of the meaning of the great Vedic Vedic commandment "That Thou

Art",

statement Tattvamasi (Thou art That) and after the direct experience

of

-which realization alone puts an end which there is no more any

return

to the cycle of Samasara and rebirth to the "ocean" of worldly

existence

-to that Dakshinamurthy, the Supreme .... to Him, the divine teacher,

Being, embodied in the auspicious and Sri Dakshinamurthy, is this

benign Guru, I offer my profound prostration.

salutation.

 

 

4. He whose light gleams through the 4. He, whose intelligence

"flashes"

senses like the eyes etc., like the outside through the eyes and

other

light emanating through many holes in sense-organs, just like the

bright

a pot in which a brilliant lamp is light of a great lamp placed in

a

kept, He whose knowledge alone brings jar having many holes, and after

in the state of knowing characterized whose shining, this whole

universe

by the awareness 'I know', He whose of "objects" shines ... to Him,

the

luminosity alone makes everything else divine teacher, Sri

Dakshinamurthy,

shine after Him-to that Dakshinamurthy, is this prostration.

the Supreme Being, embodied in the

auspicious and benign Guru, I offer my

profound salutation.

 

 

5. Vociferous pseudo-philosophers 5. He who removes all the

terrible

regard the body, life-breath, senses misconceptions, created by the

of perception and organs of action, deluding play of Maya- in those,

who,

fleeting cognitions and total non- intellectually innocent as a

woman-

existence as 'I' (Atman). Their child-blind-idiot and consider

the

power of comprehension is comparable reality as their body or their

prana

to that of women and children, and the or their senses or their

ever-changing

the blind and the dull-witted. He who intellect or as mere void and

through

destroys this stupendous delusion error (mis-conception)-declare

them to

caused by this inscrutable power be the only reality... to Him,

the

called Maya-to that Dakshinamurthy, divine teacher, Sri

Dakshinamurthy,

the Supreme Being, embodied in the is this prostration.

auspicious and benign Guru, I offer

my profound salutation.

 

 

6. As the brilliance of the Sun or 6. On folding up all the

functions of

the Moon exists even when intercepted the senses, He who enters into a

by 'Raghu' during eclipse, the power state of deep-sleep and there

becomes

of cognition remains suspended from existence veiled in Maya, like

the

the senses and the mind during sleep. Sun or the Moon during eclipse,

and

The Purusha or the Self exists as the who, on waking, remembers to

have

pure Being unrecognized through Maya's slept... to Him, the divine

teacher,

veiling power. On waking he becomes Sri Dakshinamurthy, is this

aware that he himself was asleep prostration.

earlier. Similarly, the man of

realization on waking to the

consciousness of the Self (which is

pure Being) recognizes it (his

previous ignorance) as a past event

and an apparent phenomenon. He by

whose grace this recognition of the

true nature of the Atman comes to

me-to that Dakshinamurthy, the

Supreme Being, embodied in the benign

and auspicious Guru, I offer my

profound salutation.

 

 

7. He whose existence and reality 7. He, who, through the

auspicious

shine always and uniformly in various sign of knowledge

(Jnanamudra),

states (of the body) like infacy reveals to his devotees His own

etc., and (of the mind) like waking Self-which persists in all

stages

etc, and who reveals the highest of age(childhood, boyhood, youth

Knowledge of the Atman by the (mere) and old age), in all states

(waking,

auspicious Jnanamudra - to that dreaming and deep-sleep) and in

all

Dakshinamurthy, the Supreme Being, other conditions--and who

constantly

embodied in the auspicious and manifests Himself inwardly as

"I"...

benign Guru, I offer my profound to Him, the divine teacher, Sri

salutation. Dakshinamurthy is the

prostration.

 

 

8. He by whose power of Maya the 8. He, who is the Purusha,

whirled

world is experienced during both in Maya, sees, in Himself, the

the waking and dream states in all world of cause-effect diversely

its variations in the cause-effect related as possessor and

possession,

relations like master and servent, father and son, and as teacher

and

teacher and disciple, father and taught, both in the state of

waking

son-to that Dakshinamurthy, the and of dreaming; ... to Him, the

Supreme Being embodied in the divine teacher, Sri

Dakshinamurthy,

auspicious and benign Guru, I is this prostration.

offer my profound salutaion.

 

 

9. The moving and non-moving 9. He, whose eight-fold forms

are the

universe is but (the manifestation "Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Ether,

Sun,

of) His subtle and unmanifest Moon and Jiva", and who

manifests

eightfold form, viz. Earth, Water, Himself as this universe of the

Fire, Air, Sky, Sun, Moon and the movable and immovable

objects-and

Jivatman.He by whose grace all these besides which, the Supreme all-

manifestations disappear with the pervading Lord, there exists

realization 'Nothing exists except nothing to those who reflect

well

the Supreme Brahman'- to that upon ... to Him, the divine

teacher,

Dakshinamurthy, the Supreme Being Sri Dakshinamurthy,is this

prostration.

embodied in the auspicious and

benign Guru, I offer my profound

salutaion.

 

 

10. The all pervasiveness of the 10. The Knowledge

"all-this-Atman"

Atman is clearly expounded in this (Sarva-Atmatvam) has been

explained

hymn. By its recital, hearing and in this hymn and so, by hearing

it,

meditation on its implied meaning, by reflecting and meditating

upon

the devoted disciple attains to that its meaning and by reciting it,

one

all-pervasive oneness with It, will attain that divine state,

including the unhindered Lordship endued with the glory of the

all-

over the whole universe, becoming Self-hood, along with the

permanent

the very essence of the eightfold eigth-fold holy, powers of

Godhood.

manifestation referred to above

(verse 9). He reaches the plentitude

of realization and spiritual joy.

 

 

Epilogue:

I bow down to Sri Dakshinamurthy, Lord and Teacher of the three

worlds,

who dexterously cuts asunder the painful shackles of birth and death,

and

who is to be meditated upon as sitting beneath a banyan tree and

bestowing

His grace to Supreme knowledge on the sages.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~

Glossary :

~~~~~~~~

1. Atman - General term for Soul. (Jivatman - Soul inside human

body;

Paramatman - Supreme Atman, also called Brahman)

Atman

usually means Jivatman.

2. Brahma - Aspect of God responsible for the activity of

creation.

3. Dakshinamurthy - Subtle supreme form of Lord Shiva. (Nataraja is

His dynamic form.

4. Guru - Teacher.

5. Janamudra - The touching of the tips of the thumb and forefinger

of the right palm raised in benediction signifies

the

union of Paramatman and Jivatman and thereby shows

identity.

6. Maya - Illusion.

7. Samsara - Worldly life.

8. Vedas - Sacred books of Hinduism.

 

Source: URL URLhttp://alpha.math.uga.edu/~sridar/murthy.html

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

I am grateful to Professor V. Krishnamurthy, Shri Ram Chandran, Madhav

Kumar and Sridhar for expressing their understanding of tat tvam asi.

In addition to DaksiNAmurthy stotra, tat tvam asi is also implied in

the ManIsha pa~nchakam verse 1 [T.M.P. Mahadevan's book THE WISDOM OF

UNITY on ManIsha pa~nchakam expresses the view that verses 1 to 4 of

ManIsha pa~nchakam correspond to each of the four mahAvAkyAs].

 

I have read somewhere (cannot quote the source right now) that of the

four mahAvAkyAs, tat tvam asi is usually taught by the vedanta gurukulas

in the earlier stages of human spiritual evolution (earlier compared to

the other mahAvAkyAs). I wonder if someone familiar with gurukula teaching

can comment on when the students are introduced to this mahAvAkya. I

presume that when we say tat and tvam, we are still seeing duality.

 

My objective in introducing this thread is to point out the difficulty

in proper attribution of tvam. Tvam is quite distinct from deha, indriya,

manas, prAna and ego. Also tvam is that which does not undergo the

shhaDbhAva-vikAra (the shhaDbhAvAs being kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada

and matsarya). Quite often, even a learned person contemplating on these

concepts can easily mis-attribute tvam to any of the above. Shri

Shankara's vAkyavr^tti verse very clearly sets tvam apart from these

upAdhis. Once we see tvam is different from all the above, it is easy

to see the identity of tat and tvam.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

In our 2 1/2 - 3 year course at Sandeepany West in Piercy, CA with Shri

Swami Dayananda, we were taught all of the mahAvAkyas as they appeared in

the texts we studied. At what point we encountered which mahAvAkya had more

to do with our increased understanding of Sanskrit and capacity to handle

more complex language in the text containing the mahAvAkya than any other

condition. Most but not all of us had been exposed to Shri Swamiji's public

talks in which he gives the essence of the message in simple language.

Through those, we had a somehwat clear notion of the nondual. For most of

us who had heard those talks, it was that notion of nonduality given which

compelled us to put aside all other things and spend 2-3 years in

concentrated study.

 

Aikya Param

P.O. Box 4193

Berkeley, CA 94704-0193

Advaita Vedanta for Today (graphics)

http://members.tripod.com/~aikya/

Advaita Vedanta for Today (text version)

http://members.xoom.com/aikya/aikya

 

 

Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

advaitin <advaitin >

Thursday, December 10, 1998 5:11 AM

Re: tat and tvaM

 

>Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

>

>

>Namaste.

>

>I am grateful to Professor V. Krishnamurthy, Shri Ram Chandran, Madhav

>Kumar and Sridhar for expressing their understanding of tat tvam asi.

>In addition to DaksiNAmurthy stotra, tat tvam asi is also implied in

>the ManIsha pa~nchakam verse 1 [T.M.P. Mahadevan's book THE WISDOM OF

>UNITY on ManIsha pa~nchakam expresses the view that verses 1 to 4 of

>ManIsha pa~nchakam correspond to each of the four mahAvAkyAs].

>

>I have read somewhere (cannot quote the source right now) that of the

>four mahAvAkyAs, tat tvam asi is usually taught by the vedanta gurukulas

>in the earlier stages of human spiritual evolution (earlier compared to

>the other mahAvAkyAs). I wonder if someone familiar with gurukula teaching

>can comment on when the students are introduced to this mahAvAkya. I

>presume that when we say tat and tvam, we are still seeing duality.

>

>My objective in introducing this thread is to point out the difficulty

>in proper attribution of tvam. Tvam is quite distinct from deha, indriya,

>manas, prAna and ego. Also tvam is that which does not undergo the

>shhaDbhAva-vikAra (the shhaDbhAvAs being kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada

>and matsarya). Quite often, even a learned person contemplating on these

>concepts can easily mis-attribute tvam to any of the above. Shri

>Shankara's vAkyavr^tti verse very clearly sets tvam apart from these

>upAdhis. Once we see tvam is different from all the above, it is easy

>to see the identity of tat and tvam.

>

>Regards

>Gummuluru Murthy

>------

>

>

>

>

>

>------

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>Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy, its true meaning,

profundity, richness and beauty with the focus on the non-duality between

mind and matter