Levels of Self

[Guest guest]

NOTE : When I say heart I don't mean the actual heart, but the region

where the heart is located - the chest.

 

You pose a good question Greg. How can I say I'm trying to pin point to

myself. Wouldn't that imply a witness, which is trying to pin point?

 

When I hear a sound and I try to pinpoint the source of the sound, there

are two entities involved - the subject which is I and the object which

is the source of the sound.

 

But when in meditation, when I'm trying to pinpoint myself - there's one

entity - the subject - ie I - who is trying to pinpoint - pinpoint what?

- pinpoint myself - analyze the analyzer.

 

When you close your eyes, there's just you with all the feelings,

impulses, thoughts which surround you. The very reason that you're aware

of the thoughts, feelings and impulses is the very reason that you're

not aware of yourself. But when you try to rein in your consciousness

into yourself - it's very difficult to hold it in that state - for

consciousness being what it is, it tends to spread itself. Even when

I've drawn myself in, it's only a matter of time before I become aware

of myself holding on to myself.

 

This is because the consciousness is spread all around the body. The

brain which "knows", the body which "feels" and the "I" in the heart,

each is capable of knowing the other, because the first two derive their

power of consciousness from the third - the I in the heart.

 

Atmananda is correct when he says the way to the true I is through the

false I. Yes it's only through the brain (the false I), that the source

of the brain (the true I) in the heart can be reached. When I say

through, I literally mean through. It's not the brain mentally searching

for something outside it. It's the brain searching inside itself,

reaching out for it's source.

 

This is the core difference between Vedanta and Yoga. Yoga deals with

"citta vrtti nirodah" - the cessation of mental modifications - that's

control of the brain with the ultimate object of submerging the brain

consciousness with it's source. But Vedanta aims at the source itself,

the knowledge of which as it's acharyas explain will do what Yoga tries

to do. But the Vedanta way is sounder since the objective is clearer -

the I - aim for it.

 

There's a lot of truth in the saying "follow my head or follow my

heart". The Atman is supposed to be beyond any feeling. But again all of

us have experienced "pain" in our hearts. Another strange thing is with

Gmurthy's favourite quote from the shruti, "When all the desires in the

HEART fall away, the mortal becomes immortal …". Desire is in Hindu

psychology always identified with the manas - that part of the mind

which desires. But the above quote points to the desires in the heart!

Something to think about or rather something to intuitively feel about!

 

One thing to be clear about is that I'm not saying that there're two

"I"s. If there were there would be total chaos - each pulling it's own

way. Rather that false I gets it's power from the true I. The brain

works from the power it derives from the "I" in the heart. If the "I" in

the heart is the true I, then the way of the bhakti saints which insists

on emotion or love towards God makes a lot of sense. This is another way

of activating or centering in on the true "I" in the heart, as generally

emotion rises from the "I" in the region of the heart.

 

There're two aspects of Advaitam - philosophy and the experiential

dimension. Ramana gives some incredible pointers on the latter - how to

actually experience the Self. Some of it is illustrated in Arvind

Sharma's "The experiential dimension of Advaita Vedanta". I posted some

of it a year back on the Advaita-L list. I'll post the same on this list

too soon.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/16/98 9:14:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,

vpcnk writes:(Some delated)

 

When you close your eyes, there's just you with all the feelings,

impulses, thoughts which surround you. The very reason that you're aware

of the thoughts, feelings and impulses is the very reason that you're

not aware of yourself.

 

<< works from the power it derives from the "I" in the heart. If the "I" in

the heart is the true I, then the way of the bhakti saints which insists

on emotion or love towards God makes a lot of sense. This is another w

of activating or centering in on the true "I" in the heart, as generally

emotion rises from the "I" in the region of the heart. >>

 

This is the core difference between Vedanta and Yoga. Yoga deals with

"citta vrtti nirodah" - the cessation of mental modifications - that's

control of the brain with the ultimate object of submerging the brain

consciousness with it's source. But Vedanta aims at the source itself,

the knowledge of which as it's acharyas explain will do what Yoga tries

to do. But the Vedanta way is sounder since the objective is clearer -

the I - aim for it.

 

Dear Nanda Chandran & List members.

Namaskar to all.

Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, Although I do not know how

far I am from being established in my true self , The good feelings & peace

spreads in my heart to read as such.

Many Pranam to you & other List members for sharing such insights.

Raju Chhatry