Guest guest Posted January 3, 1999 Report Share Posted January 3, 1999 Greetings: Happy New Year to you all. I was reading the book, “ The Mystery of Creation,” published by the Central Chinmaya Mission Trust, Bombay and the book contained a chapter on questions and answers from Nisargadatta Maharaj. (Chapter 10 – Beyond Space and Time). Ram Chandran Burke, VA. ================================================ Beyond Space and Time: Questions and Answers with Nisargadatta Maharaj Questioner: You keep saying that I was never born and will never die. If so, how is it that I see the world as something that has been born and will surely die? Maharaj: You believe so because you have never questioned your belief that you are the body, which, obviously, is born and dies. While alive, it attracts attention and fascinates one so completely that rarely does one perceive one's real nature. It is like seeing the surface of the ocean and completely forgetting the immensity beneath. The world is but the surface of the mind and the mind is infinite. What we call thoughts are just ripples in the mind. When the mind is quiet it reflects reality. When it is motionless through and through, it dissolves and only reality remains. This reality is so concrete, so actual, and so much more tangible than mind and matter that compared to it even a diamond is soft. This overwhelming actuality makes the world dreamlike, misty, and irrelevant. Questioner: This world, with so much suffering in it, how can you see it as irrelevant. What callousness! Maharaj: It is you who is callous, not me. If your world is so full of suffering, do something about it; don't add to it through greed or indolence. I am not bound by your dreamlike world. In my world the seeds of suffering, desire, and fear, are not sown and suffering does not grow. My world is free from opposites, of mutually aestructive discrepancies; harmony pervades; its peace is rocklike.... Just see the person you imagine yourself to be as a part of the world that you perceive within your mind. Look at the mind from the outside, for you are not the mind. Your only problem is the eager self-identification with whatever you perceive. Give up this habit, remember that you are not what you perceive, use your power of alert aloofness. See yourself in all that lives and your behavior will express your vision. Once you realize that there is nothing in this world that you can call your own, you will look at it from the outside as you look at a play on the stage, or a picture on the screen, admiring and enjoying, but really unmoved. As long as you imagine yourself to be something tangible and solid, a thing among things, actually existing in time and space, shortlived and vulnerable, naturally you will be anxious to survive and increase. But when you know yourself as beyond space and time-in contact with them only at the point of here and now, otherwise all-pervading and all-containing, unapproachable' unassailable, invulnerable-you will be afraid no longer. Know yourself as you are-there is no other remedy against fear. True Happiness You have to learn to think and feel on these lines, or you will remain indefinitely in the personal level of desire and fear, gaining and losing, growing and decaying. A personal problem cannot be solved in its own level. The very desire to live is the messenger of death, as the longing to be happy is the outline of sorrow. The world is an ocean of pain and fear, of anxiety and despair. Pleasures are like the fish, few and swift, that rarely come and are quickly gone. A man of low intelligence believes, against all evidence, that he is an exception and that the world owes him happiness. But the world cannot give what it does not have. Unreal to the core, it is of no use for real happiness. It cannot be otherwise. We seek the real because we are unhappy with the unreal. Happiness is our real nature and we shall never rest until we find it. But rarely we know where to seek it. Once you have understood that the world is but a.mistaken view of reality, and is not what it appears to be, you are free of its obsessions. Only something that is compatible with your real being can make you happy, and the world, as you perceive it, is its outright denial. Keep very quiet and watch what comes to the surface ofthe mind. Reject the known, welcome the go far unknown and reject it in its turn. Thus you come to a state, in which there is no knowledge, only being; in which being itself is knowledge. To know by being is direct knowledge. It is based on the identity of the seer and the seen. Indirect knowledge is based on sensation and memory, on proximity of the perceiver and his percept, confined with the contrast between the two. The same with happiness. Usually you have to be sad to know gladness and glad to know sadness. True happiness is uncaused and cannot disappear for lack of stimulation. It is not the opposite of sorrow; it includes all sorrow and suffering. Questioner: How can one remain happy among so much suffering? Maharaj~ One cannot help it-the inner happiness is overwhelmingly real. Like the sun in the sky its expression may be clouded, but it is never absent. Questioner: When we are in trouble, we are bound to be unhappy. Maharaj: Fear is the only trouble. Know yourself as independent and you will be free from fear and its shadows. Questioner: What isthe difference between happiness and pleasure? Maharaj: Pleasure depends on things, happiness does not. Questioner: If happiness is independent" why are we not always happy? Maharaj: As long as we believe that we need things to, make us happy, we shall also believe that in their absence we must be miserable. Mind always shapes itself according to, its beliefs. Hence the importance of convincing oneself that ont noed'not be prodded into happiness; that, on the contrary pleasure is a distraction and a nuisance, for it merely increases the false conviction that one needs to have and do things to Ix happy when in reality it is just the opposite. 'But why talk of happiness at all? You do not think o happiness except when you are unhappy. A man who says '.'Now I am happy," is between two sorrows-past and future. This happiness is mere excitement caused by relief from pain Real happiness is utterly unself-conscious. It is best expressed (negatively as: There is nothing wrong with me. I have nothinF to worry about." After all, the ultimate purposes of all shdhana i to reach a point when this conviction, instead of being onll verbal, is based on the actual and ever-present experience. Questioner: Which experience? Maharaj: The, experience of being empty, uncluttered bl memories and expectations; it is like the happiness of oper spaces, of being young, of having all the time and energy fo doing things, for discovery, for adventure. Questioner. What remains to be discovered? Maharaj: You need to discover the universe without and the immensity within, as they are in reality, in the great mind and heart of God, andthe meaning and purpose of existence the secret of suffering, and life's redemption from ignorance. Questioner: If b6ng happy is the same as being free fron fear and worry,'cannot it be said that absence of trouble is thi cause of happiness? Maharaj: A state of absence, of nonexistence, cannot be cause; the preexistence of a cause is implied in the notion. You natural state, in which nothing exists, cannot W a cause o becoming, the causes are hidden in the great and mysteriou power of memory. But your true home is in nothingness, emptiness of all content. Questioner: Emptiness and nothingness-how dreadful Maharaj: ~ You face it most cheerfully, when you go u sl&pl Find out for, yourself the state of wakeful sleep and yoi will find it quite in harmony with your real nature. Words can only give you the idea and the idea is not the experience. All I can say is that true happiness has no cause and what has no cause is immovable. This does not mean it is perceivable, as pleasure. What is perceivable is pain and pleasure; the state of freedom from sorrow can be described only negatively. To know it directly you must go beyond the mind, which is addicted to causality and the tyranny of time. Questioner: If happiness is not conscious and consciousness-not happy, what is the link between the two? Maharaj: Consciousness, being a product of conditions and circumstances, depends on them and changes along with them. What is independent, uncreated, timeless and changeless, and yet ever new and fresh, is beyond the mind. When the mind thinks of it, the mind dissolves and only happiness remains. Questioner: When all goes, nothingness remains. Maharaj: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only an idea, it depends on the memory of something. Pure being is quite independent of existence, which is definable and describable. Beyond the Mind Questioner: Please tell us: beyond the mind does consciousness continue, or does it end with the mind? Maharaj: Consciousness comes and goes, awareness shines immutably. Questioner: Who is aware in awareness? Maharaj: When there is a person, there is also consciousness. "I am," mind, consciousness, denote the same state. If you say "I am aware," it only means: "I am conscious of thinking about being aware." There is no "I am" in awareness. Questioner: What about witnessing? Maharaj: Witnessing is of the mind. The witness goes with the witnessed. In the state of nonduality all separation ceases. Questioner: What about you? Do you continue in awareness? Maharaj: The person, the "I am this body, this mind, this chain of memories, this bundle of desires and fears," disappears, but something you may call identity remains. It enables me to become a person when required. Love creates its own necessities, even of becoming a person. Questioner: It is said that Reality manifests itself as Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. Are they absolute or relative? Maharaj: They are relative to each other and depend on each other. Reality is independent of its expressions. Questioner: What is the relation between reality and its expressions? Maharaj: No relation. In reality all is real and identical. As we put i t, saguna (with qualities) and nirguna (without qualities) are one in Parabrahman. There is only the Supreme. In movement, it is saguna. Motionless, it is nirguna. But it is only the mind that moves or does not move. The real is beyond, you are beyond. Once you have understood that nothing perceivable or conceivable can be yourself, you are free of your imaginations. To see everything as imagination, born of desire, is necessary for Self-realization. We miss the real by lack of attention and create the unreal by excess-of imagination. You have to give your heart and mind to these things and brood over them repeatedly. It is like cooking food. You must keep it on the fire for some time before it is ready Questioner: Am I not under the sway of destiny, of my karma? What can I do against it? What I am and what I do Uh predetermined. Even my so-called free choice is predetermined,~ only I am not aware of it and imagine myself to be free. Maharaj: Again, it all depends how you look at it. Ignorance is like a fever-it -makes you see things which are not there. Karma is the divinely prescribed treatment. Welcome it and follow the instructions faithfully and you will get well. A patient will leave the hospital after he recovers. To insist I on immediate freedom of choice and action will merely postpone, recovery. Accept your destiny and fulfill it- this is the shortest way to freedom from destiny, though not from love and its compulsions. To act from desire and fear is bondage, to act from love is freedom. .only give you the idea and the idea is not the experience. All I can say is that true happiness has no cause and what has no cause is immovable. This does not mean it is perceivable, as pleasure. What is perceivable is pain and pleasure; the state of freedom from 5orrow can be described only negatively. To know it directly you must go beyond the mind, which is addicted to causality and the tyranny of time. Questioner: If happiness is not conscious and consciousness-not happy, what is the link between the two? Maharaj: Consciousness, being a product of conditions and circumstances, depends on them and changes along with them. What is independent, uncreated, timeless and changeless, and yet ever new and fresh, is beyond the mind. When the mind thinks of it, the mind dissolves and only happiness remains. Questioner: When all goes, nothingness remains. Maharaj: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only an idea, it depends on the memory of something. Pure being is quite independent of existence, which is definable and describable. Beyond the Mind Questioner: Please tell us: beyond the mind does consciousness continue, or does it end with the mind? Maharaj: Consciousness comes and goes, awareness shines immutably. Questioner: Who is aware in awareness? Maharaj: When there is a person, there is also consciousness. "I am," mind, consciousness, denote the same state. If you say "I am aware," it only means: "I am conscious of thinking about being aware." There is no "I am" in awareness. Questioner: What about witnessing? Maharaj: Witnessing is of the mind. The witness goes with the witnessed. In the state of nonduality all separation ceases. Questioner: What about you? Do you continue in awareness? Maharaj: The person, the "I am this body, this mind, this BEYOND SPACE AND TIME chain of memories, this bundle of desires and fears pears, but something you may call identity remains. I me to become a person when required. Love creates necessities, even of becoming a person. Questioner: It is said that Reality manifests Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. Are they absolute or r Maharaj: They are relative to each other and de each other. Reality is independent of its expressions. Questioner: What is the relation between realiti expressions? Maharaj: No relation. In reality all is real and ider we put it, saguna (with qualities) and nirguna (witho ties) are one in Parabrahman. There is only the Sup movement, it is saguna. Motionless, it is nirguna. But the mind that moves or does not move. The real is bey are beyond. Once you have understood that nothing able or conceivable can be yourself, you are free of you nations. To see everything as imagination, born of necessary for Self-realization. We miss the real by lack tion and create the unreal by excess of imagination. You have to give your heart and mind to these and brood over them repeatedly. It is like cooking food. You keep it on the fire for some time before it is ready. Questioner: Am I not under the sway of destin karma? What can I do against it? What I am and wh-, predetermined. Even my so-called free choice is predet( only I am not aware of it and imagine myself to be f. Maharaj: Again, it all depends how you look at i ance is like a fever-it -makes you see things which are n Karnia is the divinely prescribed treatment. Welcom follow the instructions faithfully and you will get patient will leave the hospital after he recovers. To i immediate freedom of choice and action will merely F recovery. Accept your destiny and fulfill it- this is the way to freedom from destiny, though not from low compulsions. To act from desire and fear is bondage, to love is freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 1999 Report Share Posted January 4, 1999 Dear Ram, Thanks for taking time and posting the notes. It is really great! I would like to know a few things though: 1. What is fear? Is there any clear cut definition for it? 2. "When all goes, nothingness remains" If I am not mistaken this is the Buddhist thought, which is nothing but "nihilism" isn't it? Maharaj seem to me addressing it. Besides, I didn't understand the point "pure being is definable and describable"!! In order to define / describe something -- you have to be away from it! Isn't Shri Maharaj suggesting Duality of existence? Hari Om! Madhava > > Ram Chandran [sMTP:chandran] > Monday, January 04, 1999 10:58 AM > Advaitin List > Beyond Space and Time > > Ram Chandran <chandran > > > Maharaj: Fear is the only trouble. Know yourself as independent and > you > will be free from fear and its shadows. > > > Questioner: When all goes, nothingness remains. > > Maharaj: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only > an > idea, it depends on the memory of something. Pure being is quite > independent of existence, which is definable and describable. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 Greetings: There is no clear cut definition for all notions which include happiness, sweetness, beauty, fear, pure etc. With our ignorance, we start with these notions and slowly "detach" from those notions through spiritual sadhana. I believe that Maharaj's reference to 'independent' imply detachment. With the spell of ignorance, the appearance of duality exists and duality will evaporate with wisdom. Lord Krishna describes the qualifications of the Perfect Yogi (Sthitaprajna) in Chapter 2, vesrs 55 to 72. The answers to your questions are contained in those verses and further elaborated in the remaining chapters. When we try to analyze Maharaj's messages individually using our imperfect analytical mind, we are likely to witness inconsistencies. Such inconsistencies only demonstrate our ignorance and negative tendencies. What is the right path of our life? The seers who wrote the Upanishads have this excellent answer: " Life is a bridge; enjoy while crossing it; but don't build a castle on it." Be a witness of your own life and operate it as though you are independent! The creator of human life gave the positive mental attitude as a gift to the new born child. This gifted child accepts everything without any questions! We need to learn a lot from our gifted children and accept our life as a gift of God. With such a positive mental attitude, we will accept the realities of life without resistance and fear. We can witness our life and can learn to accept joy, sorrow, good, bad, tall, short, beauty, ugly, light, dark, past, present and future. Then we will stop asking instantaneous explanations and we can learn to accept that we have no control over the events. Then we will stop of asking the world to change and learn to accept the world as it is! -- Ram V. Chandran Burke, VA Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote: > > Madhava Kumar Turumella <madhava > > Dear Ram, > > Thanks for taking time and posting the notes. It is really great! > > I would like to know a few things though: > > 1. What is fear? Is there any clear cut definition for it? > > 2. "When all goes, nothingness remains" If I am not mistaken this is > the Buddhist thought, which is nothing but "nihilism" isn't it? Maharaj > seem to me addressing it. > > Besides, I didn't understand the point "pure being is definable and > describable"!! In order to define / describe something -- you have to > be away from it! Isn't Shri Maharaj suggesting Duality of existence? > > Hari Om! > Madhava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 Dear Sriram, Well said! Another small request... could you please provide me the reference for the quotation "Life is a bridge..." it is a very nice quote and I would like to have the reference you you have it available. Best Regards, Madhava > > Ram Chandran [sMTP:chandran] > Tuesday, January 05, 1999 4:37 PM > advaitin > Re: Beyond Space and Time > > Ram Chandran <chandran > > What is the right path of our life? The seers who wrote the > Upanishads > have this excellent answer: " Life is a bridge; enjoy while crossing > it; > but don't build a castle on it." Be a witness of your own life and > operate it as though you are independent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 1999 Report Share Posted January 5, 1999 Greetings: The quotation is from the Upanishads and I do not know the exact source. Here is another quotation that I like from the Upanishads: " Where there is joy there is creation. Where there is no joy there is no creation: know the nature of joy." - Upanishads Here is another beautiful quotation stating the inseparablity between science and religion (The duality between science and religion is also due to ignorance!) " Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein. (1879-1955) -- Ram V. Chandran Burke, VA Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote: > > Madhava Kumar Turumella <madhava > > Dear Sriram, > > Well said! Another small request... could you please provide me the > reference for the quotation "Life is a bridge..." it is a very nice > quote and I would like to have the reference you you have it available. > > Best Regards, Madhava > > > > > Ram Chandran [sMTP:chandran] > > Tuesday, January 05, 1999 4:37 PM > > advaitin > > Re: Beyond Space and Time > > > > Ram Chandran <chandran > > > > What is the right path of our life? The seers who wrote the > > Upanishads > > have this excellent answer: " Life is a bridge; enjoy while crossing > > it; > > but don't build a castle on it." Be a witness of your own life and > > operate it as though you are independent! > > ------ > To from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------ > Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy, its true meaning, profundity, richness and beauty with the focus on the non-duality between mind and matter -- Ram V. Chandran Burke, VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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