Beyond Space and Time

[Guest guest]

Greetings:

 

Happy New Year to you all. I was reading the book, “ The Mystery of

Creation,” published by the Central Chinmaya Mission Trust, Bombay and

the book contained a chapter on questions and answers from Nisargadatta

Maharaj. (Chapter 10 – Beyond Space and Time).

 

Ram Chandran

Burke, VA.

 

================================================

Beyond Space and Time: Questions and Answers with Nisargadatta Maharaj

 

Questioner: You keep saying that I was never born and will never die. If

so, how is it that I see the world as something that has been born and

will surely die?

 

Maharaj: You believe so because you have never questioned your belief

that you are the body, which, obviously, is born and dies. While alive,

it attracts attention and fascinates one so completely that rarely does

one perceive one's real nature. It is like seeing the surface of the

ocean and completely forgetting the immensity beneath. The world is but

the surface of the mind and the mind is infinite. What we call thoughts

are just ripples in the mind. When the mind is quiet it reflects

reality. When it is motionless through and through, it dissolves and

only reality remains. This reality is so concrete, so actual, and so

much more tangible than mind and matter that compared to it even a

diamond is soft. This overwhelming actuality makes the world dreamlike,

misty, and irrelevant.

 

Questioner: This world, with so much suffering in it, how can you see it

as irrelevant. What callousness!

 

Maharaj: It is you who is callous, not me. If your world is so full of

suffering, do something about it; don't add to it through greed or

indolence. I am not bound by your dreamlike world. In my world the seeds

of suffering, desire, and fear, are not sown and suffering does not

grow. My world is free from opposites, of mutually aestructive

discrepancies; harmony pervades; its peace is rocklike.... Just see the

person you imagine yourself to be as a part of the world that you

perceive within your mind. Look at the mind from the outside, for you

are not the mind. Your only problem is the eager self-identification

with whatever you perceive. Give up this habit, remember that you are

not what you perceive, use your power of alert aloofness. See yourself

in all that lives and your behavior will express your vision.

 

Once you realize that there is nothing in this world that you can call

your own, you will look at it from the outside as you look at a play on

the stage, or a picture on the screen, admiring and enjoying, but really

unmoved. As long as you imagine yourself to be something tangible and

solid, a thing among things, actually existing in time and space,

shortlived and vulnerable, naturally you will be anxious to survive and

increase. But when you know yourself as beyond space and time-in contact

with them only at the point of here and now, otherwise all-pervading and

all-containing, unapproachable' unassailable, invulnerable-you will be

afraid no longer. Know yourself as you are-there is no other remedy

against fear.

 

True Happiness

 

You have to learn to think and feel on these lines, or you will remain

indefinitely in the personal level of desire and fear, gaining and

losing, growing and decaying. A personal problem cannot be solved in its

own level. The very desire to live is the messenger of death, as the

longing to be happy is the outline of sorrow. The world is an ocean of

pain and fear, of anxiety and despair. Pleasures are like the fish, few

and swift, that rarely come and are quickly gone. A man of low

intelligence believes, against all evidence, that he is an exception and

that the world owes him happiness. But the world cannot give what it

does not have. Unreal to the core, it is of no use for real happiness.

It cannot be otherwise. We seek the real because we are unhappy with the

unreal. Happiness is our real nature and we shall never rest until we

find it. But rarely we know where to seek it. Once you have understood

that the world is but a.mistaken view of reality, and is not what it

appears to be, you are free of its obsessions. Only something that is

compatible with your real being can make you happy, and the world, as

you perceive it, is its outright denial.

 

Keep very quiet and watch what comes to the surface ofthe mind. Reject

the known, welcome the go far unknown and reject it in its turn. Thus

you come to a state, in which there is no knowledge, only being; in

which being itself is knowledge. To know by being is direct knowledge.

It is based on the identity of the seer and the seen. Indirect knowledge

is based on sensation and memory, on proximity of the perceiver and his

percept, confined with the contrast between the two. The same with

happiness. Usually you have to be sad to know gladness and glad to know

sadness. True happiness is uncaused and cannot disappear for lack of

stimulation. It is not the opposite of sorrow; it includes all sorrow

and suffering.

 

Questioner: How can one remain happy among so much suffering?

 

Maharaj~ One cannot help it-the inner happiness is overwhelmingly real.

Like the sun in the sky its expression may be clouded, but it is never

absent.

 

Questioner: When we are in trouble, we are bound to be unhappy.

 

Maharaj: Fear is the only trouble. Know yourself as independent and you

will be free from fear and its shadows.

 

Questioner: What isthe difference between happiness and pleasure?

 

Maharaj: Pleasure depends on things, happiness does not.

 

Questioner: If happiness is independent" why are we not always happy?

 

Maharaj: As long as we believe that we need things to, make us happy, we

shall also believe that in their absence we must be miserable. Mind

always shapes itself according to, its beliefs. Hence the importance of

convincing oneself that ont noed'not be prodded into happiness; that, on

the contrary pleasure is a distraction and a nuisance, for it merely

increases the false conviction that one needs to have and do things to

Ix happy when in reality it is just the opposite.

 

'But why talk of happiness at all? You do not think o happiness except

when you are unhappy. A man who says '.'Now I am happy," is between two

sorrows-past and future. This happiness is mere excitement caused by

relief from pain Real happiness is utterly unself-conscious. It is best

expressed (negatively as: There is nothing wrong with me. I have nothinF

to worry about." After all, the ultimate purposes of all shdhana i to

reach a point when this conviction, instead of being onll verbal, is

based on the actual and ever-present experience.

 

Questioner: Which experience?

 

Maharaj: The, experience of being empty, uncluttered bl memories and

expectations; it is like the happiness of oper spaces, of being young,

of having all the time and energy fo doing things, for discovery, for

adventure.

 

Questioner. What remains to be discovered?

 

Maharaj: You need to discover the universe without and the immensity

within, as they are in reality, in the great mind and heart of God,

andthe meaning and purpose of existence the secret of suffering, and

life's redemption from ignorance.

 

Questioner: If b6ng happy is the same as being free fron fear and

worry,'cannot it be said that absence of trouble is thi cause of

happiness?

 

Maharaj: A state of absence, of nonexistence, cannot be cause; the

preexistence of a cause is implied in the notion. You natural state, in

which nothing exists, cannot W a cause o becoming, the causes are hidden

in the great and mysteriou power of memory. But your true home is in

nothingness, emptiness of all content.

 

Questioner: Emptiness and nothingness-how dreadful

 

Maharaj: ~ You face it most cheerfully, when you go u sl&pl Find out

for, yourself the state of wakeful sleep and yoi will find it quite in

harmony with your real nature. Words can only give you the idea and the

idea is not the experience. All I can say is that true happiness has no

cause and what has no cause is immovable. This does not mean it is

perceivable, as pleasure. What is perceivable is pain and pleasure; the

state of freedom from sorrow can be described only negatively. To know

it directly you must go beyond the mind, which is addicted to causality

and the tyranny of time.

 

Questioner: If happiness is not conscious and consciousness-not happy,

what is the link between the two?

 

Maharaj: Consciousness, being a product of conditions and circumstances,

depends on them and changes along with them. What is independent,

uncreated, timeless and changeless, and yet ever new and fresh, is

beyond the mind. When the mind thinks of it, the mind dissolves and only

happiness remains.

 

Questioner: When all goes, nothingness remains.

 

Maharaj: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only an

idea, it depends on the memory of something. Pure being is quite

independent of existence, which is definable and describable.

 

Beyond the Mind

 

Questioner: Please tell us: beyond the mind does consciousness continue,

or does it end with the mind?

 

Maharaj: Consciousness comes and goes, awareness shines immutably.

 

Questioner: Who is aware in awareness?

 

Maharaj: When there is a person, there is also consciousness. "I am,"

mind, consciousness, denote the same state. If you say "I am aware," it

only means: "I am conscious of thinking about being aware." There is no

"I am" in awareness.

 

Questioner: What about witnessing?

 

Maharaj: Witnessing is of the mind. The witness goes with the witnessed.

In the state of nonduality all separation ceases.

 

Questioner: What about you? Do you continue in awareness?

 

Maharaj: The person, the "I am this body, this mind, this chain of

memories, this bundle of desires and fears," disappears, but something

you may call identity remains. It enables me to become a person when

required. Love creates its own necessities, even of becoming a person.

 

Questioner: It is said that Reality manifests itself as

Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. Are they absolute or relative?

 

Maharaj: They are relative to each other and depend on each other.

Reality is independent of its expressions.

 

Questioner: What is the relation between reality and its expressions?

 

Maharaj: No relation. In reality all is real and identical. As we put i

t, saguna (with qualities) and nirguna (without qualities) are one in

Parabrahman. There is only the Supreme. In movement, it is saguna.

Motionless, it is nirguna. But it is only the mind that moves or does

not move. The real is beyond, you are beyond. Once you have understood

that nothing perceivable or conceivable can be yourself, you are free of

your imaginations. To see everything as imagination, born of desire, is

necessary for Self-realization. We miss the real by lack of attention

and create the unreal by excess-of imagination.

 

You have to give your heart and mind to these things and brood over them

repeatedly. It is like cooking food. You must keep it on the fire for

some time before it is ready

 

Questioner: Am I not under the sway of destiny, of my karma? What can I

do against it? What I am and what I do Uh predetermined. Even my

so-called free choice is predetermined,~ only I am not aware of it and

imagine myself to be free.

 

Maharaj: Again, it all depends how you look at it. Ignorance is like a

fever-it -makes you see things which are not there. Karma is the

divinely prescribed treatment. Welcome it and follow the instructions

faithfully and you will get well. A patient will leave the hospital

after he recovers. To insist I on immediate freedom of choice and action

will merely postpone, recovery. Accept your destiny and fulfill it- this

is the shortest way to freedom from destiny, though not from love and

its compulsions. To act from desire and fear is bondage, to act from

love is freedom. .only give you the idea and the idea is not the

experience. All I can say is that true happiness has no cause and what

has no cause is immovable. This does not mean it is perceivable, as

pleasure. What is perceivable is pain and pleasure; the state of freedom

from 5orrow can be described only negatively. To know it directly you

must go beyond the mind, which is addicted to causality and the tyranny

of time.

 

Questioner: If happiness is not conscious and consciousness-not happy,

what is the link between the two?

 

Maharaj: Consciousness, being a product of conditions and circumstances,

depends on them and changes along with them. What is independent,

uncreated, timeless and changeless, and yet ever new and fresh, is

beyond the mind. When the mind thinks of it, the mind dissolves and only

happiness remains.

 

Questioner: When all goes, nothingness remains.

 

Maharaj: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only an

idea, it depends on the memory of something. Pure being is quite

independent of existence, which is definable and describable.

 

Beyond the Mind

 

Questioner: Please tell us: beyond the mind does consciousness continue,

or does it end with the mind?

 

Maharaj: Consciousness comes and goes, awareness shines immutably.

 

Questioner: Who is aware in awareness?

 

Maharaj: When there is a person, there is also consciousness. "I am,"

mind, consciousness, denote the same state. If you say "I am aware," it

only means: "I am conscious of thinking about being aware." There is no

"I am" in awareness.

 

Questioner: What about witnessing?

 

Maharaj: Witnessing is of the mind. The witness goes with the witnessed.

In the state of nonduality all separation ceases.

 

Questioner: What about you? Do you continue in awareness?

 

Maharaj: The person, the "I am this body, this mind, this

 

BEYOND SPACE AND TIME

 

chain of memories, this bundle of desires and fears pears, but something

you may call identity remains. I me to become a person when required.

Love creates necessities, even of becoming a person.

 

Questioner: It is said that Reality manifests

 

Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. Are they absolute or r

 

Maharaj: They are relative to each other and de each other. Reality is

independent of its expressions.

 

Questioner: What is the relation between realiti expressions?

 

Maharaj: No relation. In reality all is real and ider we put it, saguna

(with qualities) and nirguna (witho ties) are one in Parabrahman. There

is only the Sup movement, it is saguna. Motionless, it is nirguna. But

the mind that moves or does not move. The real is bey are beyond. Once

you have understood that nothing able or conceivable can be yourself,

you are free of you nations. To see everything as imagination, born of

necessary for Self-realization. We miss the real by lack tion and create

the unreal by excess of imagination.

 

You have to give your heart and mind to these and brood over them

repeatedly. It is like cooking food. You keep it on the fire for some

time before it is ready.

 

Questioner: Am I not under the sway of destin karma? What can I do

against it? What I am and wh-, predetermined. Even my so-called free

choice is predet( only I am not aware of it and imagine myself to be f.

 

Maharaj: Again, it all depends how you look at i ance is like a fever-it

-makes you see things which are n Karnia is the divinely prescribed

treatment. Welcom follow the instructions faithfully and you will get

patient will leave the hospital after he recovers. To i immediate

freedom of choice and action will merely F recovery. Accept your destiny

and fulfill it- this is the way to freedom from destiny, though not from

low compulsions. To act from desire and fear is bondage, to love is

freedom.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ram,

 

Thanks for taking time and posting the notes. It is really great!

 

I would like to know a few things though:

 

1. What is fear? Is there any clear cut definition for it?

 

2. "When all goes, nothingness remains" If I am not mistaken this is

the Buddhist thought, which is nothing but "nihilism" isn't it? Maharaj

seem to me addressing it.

 

Besides, I didn't understand the point "pure being is definable and

describable"!! In order to define / describe something -- you have to

be away from it! Isn't Shri Maharaj suggesting Duality of existence?

 

Hari Om!

Madhava

>

> Ram Chandran [sMTP:chandran]

> Monday, January 04, 1999 10:58 AM

> Advaitin List

> Beyond Space and Time

>

> Ram Chandran <chandran

>

>

> Maharaj: Fear is the only trouble. Know yourself as independent and

> you

> will be free from fear and its shadows.

>

>

> Questioner: When all goes, nothingness remains.

>

> Maharaj: How can there be nothing without something? Nothing is only

> an

> idea, it depends on the memory of something. Pure being is quite

> independent of existence, which is definable and describable.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greetings:

 

There is no clear cut definition for all notions which include

happiness, sweetness, beauty, fear, pure etc. With our ignorance, we

start with these notions and slowly "detach" from those notions through

spiritual sadhana. I believe that Maharaj's reference to 'independent'

imply detachment. With the spell of ignorance, the appearance of

duality exists and duality will evaporate with wisdom. Lord Krishna

describes the qualifications of the Perfect Yogi (Sthitaprajna) in

Chapter 2, vesrs 55 to 72. The answers to your questions are contained

in those verses and further elaborated in the remaining chapters.

 

When we try to analyze Maharaj's messages individually using our

imperfect analytical mind, we are likely to witness inconsistencies.

Such inconsistencies only demonstrate our ignorance and negative

tendencies.

 

What is the right path of our life? The seers who wrote the Upanishads

have this excellent answer: " Life is a bridge; enjoy while crossing it;

but don't build a castle on it." Be a witness of your own life and

operate it as though you are independent! The creator of human life

gave the positive mental attitude as a gift to the new born child. This

gifted child accepts everything without any questions! We need to learn

a lot from our gifted children and accept our life as a gift of God.

With such a positive mental attitude, we will accept the realities of

life without resistance and fear. We can witness our life and can

learn to accept joy, sorrow, good, bad, tall, short, beauty, ugly,

light, dark, past, present and future. Then we will stop asking

instantaneous explanations and we can learn to accept that we have no

control over the events. Then we will stop of asking the world to

change and learn to accept the world as it is!

 

 

 

--

Ram V. Chandran

Burke, VA

 

Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote:

>

> Madhava Kumar Turumella <madhava

>

> Dear Ram,

>

> Thanks for taking time and posting the notes. It is really great!

>

> I would like to know a few things though:

>

> 1. What is fear? Is there any clear cut definition for it?

>

> 2. "When all goes, nothingness remains" If I am not mistaken this is

> the Buddhist thought, which is nothing but "nihilism" isn't it? Maharaj

> seem to me addressing it.

>

> Besides, I didn't understand the point "pure being is definable and

> describable"!! In order to define / describe something -- you have to

> be away from it! Isn't Shri Maharaj suggesting Duality of existence?

>

> Hari Om!

> Madhava

[Guest guest]

Dear Sriram,

 

Well said! Another small request... could you please provide me the

reference for the quotation "Life is a bridge..." it is a very nice

quote and I would like to have the reference you you have it available.

 

Best Regards, Madhava

>

> Ram Chandran [sMTP:chandran]

> Tuesday, January 05, 1999 4:37 PM

> advaitin

> Re: Beyond Space and Time

>

> Ram Chandran <chandran

>

> What is the right path of our life? The seers who wrote the

> Upanishads

> have this excellent answer: " Life is a bridge; enjoy while crossing

> it;

> but don't build a castle on it." Be a witness of your own life and

> operate it as though you are independent!

[Guest guest]

Greetings:

 

The quotation is from the Upanishads and I do not know the exact source.

Here is another quotation that I like from the Upanishads:

 

" Where there is joy there is creation. Where there is no joy there is

no creation: know the nature of joy." - Upanishads

 

Here is another beautiful quotation stating the inseparablity between

science and religion (The duality between science and religion is also

due to ignorance!)

 

" Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Albert Einstein. (1879-1955)

 

--

Ram V. Chandran

Burke, VA

 

 

Madhava Kumar Turumella wrote:

>

> Madhava Kumar Turumella <madhava

>

> Dear Sriram,

>

> Well said! Another small request... could you please provide me the

> reference for the quotation "Life is a bridge..." it is a very nice

> quote and I would like to have the reference you you have it available.

>

> Best Regards, Madhava

>

> >

> > Ram Chandran [sMTP:chandran]

> > Tuesday, January 05, 1999 4:37 PM

> > advaitin

> > Re: Beyond Space and Time

> >

> > Ram Chandran <chandran

> >

> > What is the right path of our life? The seers who wrote the

> > Upanishads

> > have this excellent answer: " Life is a bridge; enjoy while crossing

> > it;

> > but don't build a castle on it." Be a witness of your own life and

> > operate it as though you are independent!

>

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> Discussion of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy, its true meaning,

profundity, richness and beauty with the focus on the non-duality between mind

and matter

 

--

Ram V. Chandran

Burke, VA