Free will and sadhana

[Guest guest]

Ignorance encourages the freedom of choice,

But, knowledge enables the choice to be free!

Illusion causes the free-will to choose and act,

But, wisdom frees the will from choice and action!

[Guest guest]

Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote:

>

> "f. maiello" <egodust

>

> Snip.....

>

> beyond this, arises the question of freedom

> itself and, in this context, one logically

> asks whether a jivanmuktha is free or bound to

> dharma. here, an effective reply may be in the

> form of a counter-question: where lies true

> freedom?: in freedom of choice or freedom *from*

> choice?

>

> namaste

>

> Harsha: True Freedom cannot be "of something" and It cannot be "from

> something." Both notions are predicated on duality. As pointed out

> eloquently in the scriptures: In duality, there is always the "other." True

> Freedom lies in It Self - Being Free.

>

 

such observation is tending to the paramarthika,

whereas the whole question of free will is rooted

in vyavaharika, and the response to the mind caught

therein [such as "freedom *from* choice" concept]

is appealing to vyavaharika logic.

 

as we know, paramarthika is logical/alogical and

beyond logic/alogic simultaneously. in short,

nothing can be said of it at all, including ideas

of duality or non-duality. advaita is afterall

a tool itself, employed for the extrication of

the *apparent* judgment machine of the ego-mind.

ramakrishna as well as ramana have pointed out the

necessity of letting go of this means [viz. advaita]:

"a thorn is used to pluck another from the beneath

the skin, and when it is removed, both are thrown away."

 

yes, "True Freedom lies in It Self - Being Free"

*tends* toward paramarthika. however, the statement

yet implies the converse...still a duality.

 

so, what can be said of jnanaswaroop?

 

1. anirvachaniya?

2. mounam?

3.

 

namaste

[Guest guest]

> I have included a few passages from Krishnamurti

>on choice. It may be of help to some to understand the depth of the

>problem.

>

>Regards,

>

>---Viswanath

>

>

>....You choose because you don't like this and you like that; you are

>not satisfied with this but you want to satisfy yourself with that. Or

>you are afraid of something and run away from it.

>

>....All want all craving is binding, and your choice is born of fear, of

>desire for consolation, comfort, reward, or as a result of cunning

>calculation. Because of the emptiness in you there is want. Since your

>choice is always based on the idea of gain, there can be no true

>discernment, no true perception, only want. When you choose, as you do

>choose, your choice merely creates another set of circumstances which

>results in further conflict and choice. Your choice, which is born of

>limitation, sets up a further series of limitations, and these

>limitations create the consciousness which is the 'I', the ego.

>

>....We may think that our choices are based on reason, on discernment;

>we may think that we weigh possibilities and calculate chances before

>making a choice. Yet because there is in us a longing, a want, a

>craving, we cannot know true perception or discernment. When you realize

>this, when you become aware of it with your whole being, emotionally as

>well as with the mind, when you realize the futility of want, then want

>ceases; then you are freed from that feeling of emptiness. In that flame

>of awareness there is no discipline, no effort.

>

>But we do not perceive this fully; we do not become aware, because we

>experience a pleasure in want, because we are continually hoping that

>the pleasure in want shall dominate the pain. We strive to attain the

>pleasure even though we know it is not free from pain. If you become

>fully aware of the whole significance of this, you have wrought

>a miracle for yourself; then you will experience freedom from want, and

>therefore liberation from choice; then you will no longer be that

>limited consciousness, the 'I'.

>

>....Now meditation for most people is based on the idea of choice. In

>India, the idea is carried to its extreme. There the man who can sit

>still for a long period of time, dwelling continuously on one idea, is

>considered spiritual. But, actually, what has he done? He has discarded

>all ideas except the one he has deliberately chosen, and his choice

>gives him satisfaction. He has trained his mind to concentrate on this

>one idea, this one picture; he controls and thereby limits his mind and

>hopes to overcome conflict. Now, to me this idea of meditation - of

>course I have not described it in detail - is utterly absurd. It is not

>really meditation; it is a clever escape from conflict, an intellectual

>feat that has nothing to do whatever with true living. You have trained

>your mind to conform to a certain rule according to which you hope to

>meet life. But you will never meet life as long as you are held in a

>mold. Life will pass you by because you have already limited your mind

>by your own choice.

>

The bottom line of JK message is- as long as there is ego - or conditioned

mind, there is a choice to whatever extent that ego perceives. Once you

transcend the ego or once one is no longer conditioned then freedom is the

freedom of the soul. No more inner conflicts for freedom, or conflicts of

choice, to free oneself. since you are free. In reality one is free from

conditioning even now where as the mind by nature is conditioned - time

wise, content wise.

 

Conflict that JK points out is when the conditioning of the mind is taken

be ones own conditioning. When he says - "it is a clever escape from

conflict, an intellectual feat that has nothing to do whatever with true

living".

unconditioning of the mind cannot be achieved by process involving mind or

intellect - it will result in another conditioning. Only way, as per JK,

not involving "an intellectual feat" is to look at the whole process of

conditioning - which involves separating oneself from the mind that is

conditioned. Vedanta recognizes this problem - yet emphasizes that it is

easy to talk of unconditioning and even the scenario described is another

gimmick of the mind too. It emphases that one has to reeducate the mind

for it to recognize "the futility of wants" - there sadhana involving

'free will' is important. Once the mind truly recognizes 'the futility of

wants' then one can stand apart and examine the conditioned mind to become

free from its conditioned state. The principle is the same - to get out

from the pressures of ones vaasanas or "to recognize the futility of

wants", effort is needed in reeducating the mind. Then as Frank put it is

'freedom from choice rather than freedom of choice".

 

Thanks for posting JK's analysis. Problem is the same and the solution is

also the same, however much one looks at it differently.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

K. Sadananda

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Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

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