Freewill

[Guest guest]

>I must say I have some difficulty following Shri Nanda Chandran's

>analysis of my post.

>My post (under reference) is set in the vyavahArika mode, where we do

not

>have experiential knowledge of sameness of Brahman and Atman.

 

The shruti says brahman is beyond the senses and the mind. So one cannot

have 'experential' knowledge of brahman, like we do with other empirical

objects. The shruti again asserts that you are Brahman. So how can YOU

use YOUR intellect and the senses to know YOURSELF? How can the knower

be known?

>We have intellectual knowledge of the sameness but not experiential

knowledge.

 

Even this is only a half truth. In the first place we do not know either

Atman or Brahman. So how can one posses intellectual knowledge of the

sameness?

>In that scenario, we still see the difference. If my post is viewed in

>that light, may be some of the objections which Shri Nanda raised may

>not be there? If my post is still considered not clear, I would be very

>glad to clarify.

 

It's the tendency to OBJECTIFY the subject, which is the problem. The

conceptualizing tendency has to be abandoned to ascend to the higher

state of intuitive non-dual experience.

>I like to touch on another point also. tat tvam asi. From my

>understanding, meaning of tat tvam asi is quite profound. Tvam is

>not what we see as ourselves. Tvam is the inner you.

 

If tvam is the inner you, is there an outer you? If it's thought that

you're the outer you, who has to reach the inner you, then how do you

even know that the inner you exists? Even if the inner you exists, it's

not you as you are now. So what use can it be to you then? The dualistic

teaching is applicable only in the beginning stages, which is later

rescinded to move on to the higher teachings of non-dualism. Inshort,

YOU presuppose the intellect, mind, ego, consciousness etc So the final

purport of knowledge is to let go of all "knowledge", which is only at

the level of the intellect. All YOU have to do is to draw into YOURSELF.

What you are doing now is - With what's not you, you try to conceive

that which is the cause of what's not you - which is nothing but

YOURSELF.

>Totally distinct from the body, senses, mind, prANa, and ego is that

>which is the SELF; therefore it is absolutely free from the six

>modifications, which material things must naturally undergo. This

>Self is the indicative meaning of the term "thou" (tvam).

 

Exactly. The Self is nothing but YOU, even in the common sense of the

term. YOU are always present. It's YOUR mind or YOUR intellect or YOUR

ego or YOUR sense, which works. What the above statement does not mean

is that since the Self is beyond the mind and senses, it's beyond you.

It only means that since YOU ARE IT, and the senses and the mind exist

only in relation to YOU, YOU are beyond them. YOU presuppose them. The

YOU is nothing but you even now. So don't try to use the mind and the

intellect to know yourself. Just be. (It may sound simple , but just try

it and you'll find how hard it is to be YOURSELF!)

>Tat tvam asi is valid only in paramArtha. My post under reference is

>set entirely in vyavahArika mode.

 

If paramartha is anything apart from you, even as you are now, you'll

never be it. It's only you in the common sense of the term. Only the

common tendency is to "think" of it as beyond and try to "evolve" or

"reach" it! Vyavahara and paramartha is again only an aid in the

preliminary stages, to be rescinded in the higher non-dual teachings.

And when you're discussing adhyAsam, let go of it!

 

Murthygaaru, with your objective approach you're a pracanna Naiyayika

:-)

[Guest guest]

 

nanda chandran [vpcnk]

Monday, February 01, 1999 2:16 PM

advaitin

Freewill

 

The Self is nothing but YOU, even in the common sense of the

term. YOU are always present. It's YOUR mind or YOUR intellect or YOUR ego

or YOUR sense, which works. What the above statement does not mean is that

since the Self is beyond the mind and senses, it's beyond you. It only means

that since YOU ARE IT, and the senses and the mind exist only in relation to

YOU, YOU are beyond them. YOU presuppose them. The YOU is nothing but you

even now. So don't try to use the mind and the intellect to know yourself.

Just be. (It may sound simple , but just try it and you'll find how hard it

is to be YOURSELF!)

 

Harsha: Very beautifully put. But how can one "try" to just be? Trying

indicates "doing". Being is always Prior to all doing. So Being must be

found permeating "all doing and trying" and also independent of them.

Spiritual effort itself is due to Grace. God Remembrance is due to Grace.

The Absolute Surrender is due to Grace and it is this Moment of Truth that

contains Infinity. It puts an end to all trying and doing. Here Being shines

forth in all nakedness and dominates everywhere. Here, the Self Sees It Self

as the Self as there is Nothing else to See but the Self.