Guest guest Posted February 14, 1999 Report Share Posted February 14, 1999 Forwarding to two other lists. My reply is at the bottom....Harsha Ram Chandran wrote: > Ram Chandran <chandran > > What do I really own? > > Harsha in a recent post has stated that Ram is the owner of the Advaitin > List. For several hours, I pondered over this statement to understand > what does ownership really mean and I have summarized my thoughts > below. I want to thank Harsha for raising this interesting question. > > First, every member of this spiritual forum is a share holder and we > have our rights and liabilities. No monetary benefits (and hopefully no > liabilities) accrue from the ownership these shares and consequently, > our minds enjoy more peace! Though, we have freedom to discuss what we > desire our discussions are subject to the restriction imposed by the > list policies. Inescapably, We have limitations similar to the goat > tied to the post with the rope. The list policies are self-imposed and > we developed those policies to focus our discussions to the list > objectives. Each owner defines the role and chooses (free-will!) a role > to play and the role defines the responsibility. Implicitly, we just > own the role and we are obligated with new responsibilities. Our roles > vary from time to time. We switch our roles quite often from discussion > leaders to participants to silent listeners. Sometime we even become > judges! The greatest wealth of this list is the collective wisdom of > those members who contribute to the discussions by keeping them highly > focused and dedicate a significant amount of their time. I believe > those dedicated unselfish contributors are the real owners of this > list. > > This spiritual forum is a great vehicle to learn and practice Karma > Yoga. The author of any article has to accept the outcome whether the > article receives congratulatory remarks or criticisms. If the author > posts with the Karma Yagna attitude, he or she can free the mind from > unnecessary agitation! The authors should be thankful when someone else > takes the time to read and point out an obvious mistake. When we learn > our mistakes, it is painful but such a pain is inevitable. However, any > resulting suffering through mind agitation is an avoidable option! > > In conclusion, I believe that all members of the list collectively own > this list and own the underlined responsibilities. I own the > responsibility of List moderation. The one-list administration has > outlined a list of duties of the list moderator. In addition, the > members of Advaitin List have added more responsibilities. When we came > to this universe, we started our life with more and greater > responsibilities. We chose to own various roles at different periods of > our life. However, after sometime, we got fed up with the ownership and > we want to surrender the ownership to realize full freedom. > Philosophically, one could ask the question - what do I really own? On > first thought, I thought that I got the answer. On second thought, I > have to admit that I have no answer! Do you have the answer? > > Ram Chandran > List Moderator > Harsha: Thank you Ram Ji for your insightful analysis and question. It is hard to answer the question, "What do I really own?". Any attempt to answer the question would have to rely on the mind. But do we really own the mind? The mind is after all a complex interplay of various types of social, psychological, and biological conditioning. For example on our "sister list" at TAMU.EDU, they are busy debating the differences between Samkhya and Vedanta and (implicitly) the relative merits of the philosphers/sages behind them. The list that I moderate (not own - Thank you Ram Ji), the issue of difference between Vedantic nonudualism and Shavism non dualism has been raised. Do we even own our attachments to various schools of thoughts Ram ji? My experience is that everything (attachment to the mind itself) must be given up entirely to the Lord in order to enter the Lord that sits in the Heart and Is the Heart. So what do we really own? I cannot say. Perhaps the Lord of the Heart, Who is the Pure and Supreme Being, Eternal and Whole, Owns us. But upon being absorbed by the Owner, there is nothing left but the Owner. Currently on lease :-) Harsha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 1999 Report Share Posted February 15, 1999 On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Ram Chandran wrote: > Ram Chandran <chandran > > What do I really own? > > [...] > Philosophically, one could ask the question - what do I really own? On > first thought, I thought that I got the answer. On second thought, I > have to admit that I have no answer! Do you have the answer? > > Ram Chandran > List Moderator > > Namaste. It is nice to see this introspective question. In my view, we own nothing. Let me elaborate. What we "own" depends on the evolution of our Self, or how we view the jagat. I am sure the List members are entirely familiar with these thoughts. We have seen many people who behave as if they own the world. There were times when we consider the research equipment, research laboratory, results, the office-room where we work in, the computer which we use to communicate and to process data, as our own. This is in spite of the fact that either our employer, or our grant money provided the facilities. There were times when the parking space where we put the car regularly is considered our own, the seat in the airline where we sit in our occasional travels as mine. This is in spite of the fact they are public facilities. What is the difference between the public washroom facility that we use occasionally and the research and office facilities that we are provided at work? In my view, nothing. We do not own anything. Now coming to things which we buy with our after-tax money. We buy house, car, appliances and so on. We are given the legal right of ownership but we do not own them. These items are independent of us (or part of us if we see it in an alternate perspective). We are only given the responsibility to fix them and to use them. A (North American) Indian proverb is very appropriate here. I am paraphrasing it here because I just cannot recall the exact wording "World is not what we pass on to the children. It is what we borrowed from our children". Another East Indian statement of wisdom is: "There is only one cause for evil on Earth 'This belongs to me'" ... from "Prayer of the frog" by Anthony de Mello (1988). The departure of our body, mind and intellect from the jagat is independent of the "departures" of these items from this jagat. Taking Shri Shankara's ManIshha pa~ncakam verse 1 (or many of His other writings), the house etc are all wood and our body and mind are made up of food and ultimately they are all the same. So, where is ownership of one over the other? We certainly do not own the spouse or children or relatives although we use words like my spouse, my children etc. So, there is no ownership there. Do we own the body, or the mind. Our usage is my body, my mind, but do we own them? As an extension to the above analysis, we simply inhabit the body during this short sojourn and we leave this body and move away in a very few short years. So, where is the ownership? Thus "my" conclusion is: we do not own anything. We are simply travellers occupying this particular seat for this short journey, or more aptly, we are temporarily using this public washroom facility (we certainly do not claim ownership of such a public facility in our worldly thinking). Thus, look at the jagat as a public facility where we do not claim any ownership. Regards Gummuluru Murthy ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 1999 Report Share Posted February 16, 1999 Namaste. A slight correction to my post of yesterday on this topic. What we own in this jagat are the results of the good and bad actions that we perform here. This is what we carry forward, which is the essence of all our good and bad actions. That is what we can say we really own. Regards Gummuluru Murthy ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 1999 Report Share Posted February 16, 1999 Sri Ramachandran's post reminds me one of the stories of Tolstoy? How much land man needs or owns? The story goes like this: There was one fellow who wanted to own lot of land, but had only 1000 rubles with him and with that kind of money one cannot own any thing in Moscow. He found out that if he goes further away from the city, the land is cheaper. When he went there, he discovered he will get lot more land for the same money if goes further north. Thus he went on until he discovered to his amazement that in the town further away they give away freely land as much as one wants. He went there and the town people received him with great smiles and said that he should first deposit his 1000 rubles with them, they will provide him as much land as he wants. He will get back his deposit also if he follows the instructions correctly. So he agreed. Next day morning they took him to big open land and marked the place and told him that he can start in the east direction as far as he wants and mark the place and then proceed in the other directions marking every time when he changed his direction. He must return by sun set to the starting point and whatever land he could cover is his to keep. The man was very happy. He wanted lot of land and ran and ran in the east direction along a line. By noon he went a long way and decided to go towards south so that he can cover larger area. He wanted to cover as much as he can and so ran faster and faster. It was already 3:00 PM when the decided to turn towards west. Since he ran so far away in the east direction, he has to cover all that distance and only 3 more hours left. He ran faster and faster and by the time he came to the starting point, he dropped dead out of exhaustion. They just buried him right there - all he owned in the end was enough place for him to get buried - just 3by6 feet. For Hindus, we donot need even that much since the body is burned to ashes - just a pot of ashes to be thrown in to rivers. I heard that When Alexander the great was buried he kept his palms up open to let others know that he is taking a penny with him! What we own is only ourselves. That we cannot get rid of even if we want to. Everything else has no meaning. If we play the game of life with that understanding, the play itself will be enchanting. There is nothing to gain nothing to loose - Just play for fun. Hari Om! Sadananda K. Sadananda Code 6323 Naval Research Laboratory Washington D.C. 20375 Voice (202)767-2117 Fax:(202)767-2623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 1999 Report Share Posted February 16, 1999 praNAMs poojya sadanadagaru, Thank you for posting an interesting story. Actually, I am interested in reading parables/stories that relate to advaita. I guess, many of the members of this can contribute. I would request you to continue posting stories when ever possible. Hari Om, Madhava > > sadananda [sMTP:sada] > Tuesday, February 16, 1999 7:23 PM > advaitin > Re: What do I really own? > > sadananda <sada > > > The story goes like this: There was one fellow who wanted to own lot > of > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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