Vedas

February 18, 1999

Namaste

We have seen a lot of very informative and interesting material on 'Vedas'

This list has many learned members who are well versed in scriptures.

May I request them to respond to the following enquiry:-

(1) Vedas are considered to be 'Apaurushaya' - they are said to be the body of

knowledge

(from Sanskrit vid-to know) acquired in deep meditation.

If this is the case then would it not be wrong to say that the Vedas are just

limited to a collection of verses in a set of four books?

(2) Karmakanda and rituals like yagna. Can I ask the learned members if they

know of any recent examples of any Karmakandis who have achieved first hand

experience of God?

pranams

jay

Vivekananda Centre London

February 18, 1999

> Namaste We have seen a lot of very informative and interesting

>material on >'Vedas' This list has many learned members who are well

>versed in scriptures. >May I request them to respond to the following

>enquiry:- (1) Vedas are >considered to be 'Apaurushaya' - they are

>said to be the body of knowledge (from >Sanskrit vid-to know) acquired in

>deep meditation. If this is the case then would it >not be wrong to say

>that the Vedas are just limited to a collection of verses in a set >of

>four books? (2) Karmakanda and rituals like yagna. Can I ask the

>learned >members if they know of any recent examples of any Karmakandis

>who have >achieved first hand experience of God? pranams jay

>Vivekananda Centre >London

----------------

Since vedic rituals do not appeal to my heart, I have not paid much

attention to them. I am exposed mostly to the uttara meemaamsa and

therefore my understanding is very limited.

I interpret the apourusheya aspect to all knowledge to which word Veda

stands - that includes all shastraas (sciences) as well - since these are

revelations to meditated inquiring minds. All shaastras including Vedas

were put under the classification of lower knowledge - only the knowledge

of the reality is considered as supreme knowledge.

Brahma suutra starts with "athaathou brahma giJNaasa" - "now, therefore,

the inquiry of Brahman" - what 'Now' and 'Therefore' stand for -

aachaaryaas have interpreted differently.

Shankara stresses that 'now' stands for after recognizing the futility of

the karma to secure the eternal happiness, and 'therefore' stands for the

mind which is otherwise purified from all attachments, the inquiry into

JNaana starts. Essentially the emphasis is not to hang on to the karmas,

since they finished their role in terms of purification and it is time to

turn to give more importance to inquiry. It is like elementary education

is over and it is time to go to high school. At the same time one cannot

directly go to high school without proper preparation in some form or the

other. On the other hand one need not hang on to the elementary classes

for ever.

Ramaanuja on the other hand insists that vedavihita karmaas should not be

given up any time - this include - sandhyaavandanam, devataa archana,

tarpana and propitiations to the pitru devas etc. and should be done.

Doing them may not incur any brownie points but by not doing them one will

incur sin. Krishna's statement - vihitam kuru - do your obligatory duties

- here obligatory includes all actions depending on ones caste and position

etc.

In the karma khaanDa there are two types of rituals - those that are

obligatory and those that are related to kaamya karma ( such as

putrakaameshhTi yagna). Obligatory duties include for example daily agni

hotra that Ram discussed and devataarchana etc.

In Ramaanujaa's system - devataarchana (worship of God - NaaraayaNa) is

emphasized not only as Veda vihita karma but a step leading to Bhakti -

devotion to God - VishishhTaadvaitins in the mature years take up

Bharanyaasam (sharaNaagati) where they undergo a ritual under the guidance

of Guru and follow strict discipline that include several daily puujaa

vidhi and control of dietary intake etc. These are all programmed to

purify the mind and to develop single minded devotion to God. The goal

should be clear - otherwise there is more emphasis on the means than the

goal. I have seen this hapenning in many families.

All aachaaryaas insist that by just following karma khaanDa one can not get

liberated and some insists further that by not doing what one is obligated

to do, one cannot achieve the required frame of mind to go higher.

But ones we understand the science involved, then it is easy to follows

ones own dharma correctly. Only if we donot understand then one has to

confirm to rules. But if we understand one follows naturally what is

right. It is not that I have to do agnihotra for purification or vedic

archana to appease God. Krishna declares in Geeta 9th chapter:

partram pushpam phalam toyam yo me bhktyaa prayacchati|

tadaham bhktyupahRutam ashnaami priyataatmanaH||

yat karoshi yadashnaasi yadjNhosi dadaasi yat|

yattapasyasi kounteya, tatkurushva madarpaNam||

Offer me with full devotion, a leaf, a flower, water etc., I accept that

gladly. and He goes one step further, whatever you do, whatever you eat,

whatever you perform, whatever you engage yourself intensely, offer that to

me - that way one can get detached from the fruits of the action and the

mind gets purified.

Essentially Krishna gives a blanket statement - whatever one is engaged in

as his duty due to obligation with society, with family etc. that itself

becomes an appropriate ritual if one brings Lord into picture. What is

needed is Bhakti not the mechanics of the ritual that is involved. Hence

role of Karma khaanDa should be understood in appropriate frame work.

This is not to deny the fruits of Veda vihita karma in terms of yaJNaas or

agnihotraas, etc., if one is interested. But I believe that is neither

necessary nor sufficient. What is necessary and sufficient is the purity

of the mind. How one can achieve that depends what one perceives his role

in the society.

Examples of Mahaatmaa Gandhi and Mother Terresa in this century as true

karma yogins where they could see God in their actions. Love automatically

follows spontaneously. Karma cannot become yoga unless Eswara is brought

in. Both are devotees of God and surrenderence is complete.

Karma itself cannot lead - karma becomes yoga when Lord is brought in and

that purifies the mind and the rest Lord will take care.

This is my understanding, of course. There are ritualists who do not agree

with this assessment and I have no arguments with them either.

Hari Om

Sadananda

K. Sadananda

Code 6323

Naval Research Laboratory

Washington D.C. 20375

Voice (202)767-2117

Fax:(202)767-2623

February 18, 1999

Namaste,

Sadananda I am impressed with your reply. What stands out to me is just how

much 'material' there is available to help us reach the 'goal'. For myself,

the times when I appear to be in the 'non-dual' state are only those times

when I am acting in a state of bhakti with no awareness of action or

reaction - then it truly does appear that something else is actually taking

care of it all.

Thanks for sharing and reminding so clearly.

Linda

sadananda [sada]

Thursday, February 18, 1999 9:40 AM

advaitin

Re: Vedas

sadananda <sada