Rope and snake

[Guest guest]

Does anyone here know for certain whether Sri Sankara's "Rope and snake"

analogy were his own words, or did this analogy exist beforehand? I

noticed that Sri Ramana Maharshi uses it himself, which is why I ask.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Greetings:

 

The critics and admirers of Advaita consider that the "Rope and Snake"

analogy comes from Sri Sankara's own words. Books, scholars and sages

from recognized Advaitic Institutions state that this analogy is due to

Adi Sankara.

 

Ram Chandran

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>Does anyone here know for certain whether Sri Sankara's "Rope and

snake"

>analogy were his own words, or did this analogy exist beforehand? I

>noticed that Sri Ramana Maharshi uses it himself, which is why I ask.

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Ram Chandran wrote:

> "Ram Chandran" <chandranram

>

> Greetings:

>

> The critics and admirers of Advaita consider that the "Rope and Snake"

> analogy comes from Sri Sankara's own words. Books, scholars and sages

> from recognized Advaitic Institutions state that this analogy is due to

> Adi Sankara.

>

> Ram Chandran

>

> >Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

> >

> >Does anyone here know for certain whether Sri Sankara's "Rope and

> snake"

> >analogy were his own words, or did this analogy exist beforehand? I

> >noticed that Sri Ramana Maharshi uses it himself, which is why I ask.

>

 

namaste.

 

Shri Shankara's powerful and thorough analysis of the rope-snake analogy

brought that analogy into so much prominence that it is usually taken

that Shri Shankara brought up that analogy. But, historically, we can

trace the rope-snake analogy to GauDapAda's MAnDUkya kArikA, i.e.

earlier than Shri Shankara's time.

 

MAnDUkya kArikA verses (II-17 and II-18) state

 

anishchitA yathA rajjur andhakAre vikalpitA

sarpadhArAdibhir bhAvais tadvad AtmA vikalpitah II.17

 

As in the dark a rope which is not determinately known is imagined to

be a snake or a continous line of water, etc, so is imagined the soul

(Atman=jIva)

 

nischcitAyAm yathA rajjvAm vikalpo vinivartate

rajjur eveti cAdvaitam tadvad Atmavinishcayah II.18

 

As the rope being determinately known, the thing imagined vanishes

and there is non-duality - it is nothing but the rope, so is the

ascertainment of Atman.

 

I cannot say for sure off-hand that this analogy is not mentioned in

BhagavadgItA.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

Thank you both for the clarification. Although it is stated in the preface

to the English translation of Viveka-Chudamani that Sankara was "a

reformer, not an innovator," I believe that he was both. He brought a

fresh, new perspective to the spirituality of India, and thus paved the way

for the many future sages that were to come. I like the statement in the

aforementioned preface:

 

"Separated by intervals of a thousand years, like three tremendous mountain

peaks, Buddha, Shankara and Ramakrishna dominate the range of India's

religious history."

 

To me, all three were innovators, although the words of Buddha don't always

have the ring of Truth to me. I believe Buddha was enlightened, but his

focus on "emptiness" doesn't particularly please me. I prefer the fullness

of joy and bliss that is found in Brahman, not emptiness (of course,

various interpretations have been given for what Buddha meant by "emptiness."

 

Tim

 

At 12:59 PM 3/9/99 -0330, you wrote:

>Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

>

>

>On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Ram Chandran wrote:

>

>> "Ram Chandran" <chandranram

>>

>> Greetings:

>>

>> The critics and admirers of Advaita consider that the "Rope and Snake"

>> analogy comes from Sri Sankara's own words. Books, scholars and sages

>> from recognized Advaitic Institutions state that this analogy is due to

>> Adi Sankara.

>>

>> Ram Chandran

>>

>> >Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>> >

>> >Does anyone here know for certain whether Sri Sankara's "Rope and

>> snake"

>> >analogy were his own words, or did this analogy exist beforehand? I

>> >noticed that Sri Ramana Maharshi uses it himself, which is why I ask.

>>

>

>namaste.

>

>Shri Shankara's powerful and thorough analysis of the rope-snake analogy

>brought that analogy into so much prominence that it is usually taken

>that Shri Shankara brought up that analogy. But, historically, we can

>trace the rope-snake analogy to GauDapAda's MAnDUkya kArikA, i.e.

>earlier than Shri Shankara's time.

>

>MAnDUkya kArikA verses (II-17 and II-18) state

>

>anishchitA yathA rajjur andhakAre vikalpitA

>sarpadhArAdibhir bhAvais tadvad AtmA vikalpitah II.17

>

>As in the dark a rope which is not determinately known is imagined to

>be a snake or a continous line of water, etc, so is imagined the soul

>(Atman=jIva)

>

>nischcitAyAm yathA rajjvAm vikalpo vinivartate

>rajjur eveti cAdvaitam tadvad Atmavinishcayah II.18

>

>As the rope being determinately known, the thing imagined vanishes

>and there is non-duality - it is nothing but the rope, so is the

>ascertainment of Atman.

>

>I cannot say for sure off-hand that this analogy is not mentioned in

>BhagavadgItA.

>

>

>Regards

>Gummuluru Murthy

>------

>

>

>

>

>

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>

 

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The CORE of Reality awaits you at:

http://www.serv.net/~fewtch/ND/index.html -

Poetry, Writings, even Live Chat on spiritual topics.