Guest guest Posted March 25, 1999 Report Share Posted March 25, 1999 Tony O'Clery <aoclery Namaste, Is not Sat Chit Ananda ,Saguna Brahman, considering Ananda, or bliss is an attribute? Tony. Hello Tony. I do not know about Saguna Brahman but there are scholars and people with great knowledge on the Advaitin list who can help. You might wish to refer to such works as the Ashtavakra Gita and the Avadhuta Gita or works of Sri Shankra. Sages like Ramana maharshi have expressed the radical nondual perspective. It can truly only be grasped through and by one's own understanding. As far as your question goes, the experience of Self is indeed Fullness of Bliss and Awareness. Sat, Chit, and Ananda are the Same. But the mind, in expressing the joy of Pure Existence Recognizing and Resting in Its Own Nature, gravitates towards these kinds of words. Any expression is of course misleading and conditioned by one's culture. We use Sat- Chit- Ananda to approximate That which is both Fullness and Emptiness. When Time and Space have been swallowed up, what can really be said, and by who. Here is a verse from one of my poems Such beauty I have never seen In oceans mountains or the sky Or the cosmic bird that likes to fly Across the billion galaxies Harsha _______ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 1999 Report Share Posted March 25, 1999 On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) wrote: > "Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > > Tony O'Clery <aoclery > > Namaste, > > Is not Sat Chit Ananda ,Saguna Brahman, considering Ananda, or bliss is > an attribute? > > Tony. > > Harsha > _______ > namaste. Just a small correction. As per my understanding: Sat, chit, Ananda *are* nirguNa Brahman. Sat, chit, Ananda are not attributes, but they are (nirguNa) Brahman itself. NirguNa Brahman is that formless, undescribable entity, which our Consciousness is. For saguNa Brahman, sat, chit, Ananda and all other good qualities are considered arributes. Regards Gummuluru Murthy ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 1999 Report Share Posted March 25, 1999 Translating Anada as bliss when talking about Sat Chit Ananda causes no end of confusion. Another word used sometimes is ananta, or without limit, spacewise or timewise. These three words are not attributes but are an attempt to use words to describe the unique Self. Each word corrects a possible error inherent in the preceding. We say the self exists or is existent, sat. well stones and chemicals like titanium exist as well but are inert. To correct he possible misunderstanding that the Self is an inert something or other, the word Chit or conscious is added. So the self is some existent consciousness. Now there are many things we know everyday which are both existent and conscious, from Presidnets to paupers, from butterflies to babboons. So is the self just another consious entity rolling about somewhere? To take care of that problem the word ananta is used. It means without end, or without edges if you like. Sometimes the word Ananda is used and, alas, commonly translated as "bliss." People, even by themselves, can do the "neti neti"--not this, not this. They can see that the inner self is not. Not the body, not the emotions, not the intellect, not their knowledge, not their ignorance. Most people can get back to the Sat Chit, the existent awareness by their own enquiry and they can see that it has no form or qualities. Thus we have Krishnamurti. In fact the Buddhists got to this place but mistook Sat Chit for the Void. So where is the Sat chit? If it doesn't have any shape, there is no reason to say that it is anywhere in particular. Certainly it cannot be placed anywhere in the human body over and above any other place. The space around my body exists and is known so sat chit is there as well. From I-awareness, how far is the sun? My body is a certain distance but there is no distance between awareness and the sun, or the farthest galaxy. All are in awareness which is the Self. Since the self has no form, it is everywhere and all forms including the elements like space are within it. In this way the Self is spacewise limitless, or ananta. If your are and I am I-awareness, when did it start? There is a birthday for the form, the body, a birthday and astrological chart. I-awareness has no form so it need not have been born. What time is it for I-awareness? It is always Now. For I awareness, it was Now when Adishankara debated with leading thinkers of his day. For I awareness it was Now when Lord Rama destroyed Ravana and rescued Sita (Happy Ram Navame!) For I awareness it was Now when Lord Krishna taught Arjuna; it was Now when India began its governemnt independent of colonial rule. It was Now when George Washington took the oath of office as our first US president. On 1-1-2000, whatever will happen with all the computers, for I-awareness, it is Now. Since I awareness has no form that needed to be born, it still has no form that needs to decay and die. Thus I-awareness is not limited by Time. Time is an object known to it. Time is within I-awareness. Now back to this Ananda word. If the Self as I-awareness exists and is conscious, is it moody the way I can be? We now know, of course, that moodiness can be the result of physical problems such as endocrine disorders or insufficient seratonin uptake in the brain That kind of moodiness we eliminated when we realized that the self is not the body. Now tell me what can you lack if you are I-awareness, and time and space are both within you? All the wealth, all the "power", every beneficial quality that anyone can recognize, shows up in I-awareness. If you are I-awareness, not limited by time, what can you fear? Usually people fear death, which maybe is a stand-in for any kind of change. If you are I-awareness, it was never born and can never die. The changes and death of the body will not make I awareness less what it is. So, when a person is clear about being the I Awareness, not limited by space and time, the usual feelings of lack and fear go. Bliss is also some kind of psychosomatic condition which can be brought on with drugs. So Ananda is not referring to that kind of bliss. It is freferring to a firm tranquil resting in the adequacy of the Self. Aikya Param Berkeley, CA, USA Advaita Vedanta for Today http://members.tripod.com/~aikya/ Promise http://promise.webprovider.com Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar) <hluthar < >; NondualitySalon <NondualitySalon >; advaitin <advaitin >; 'satsang' <satsang > Thursday, March 25, 1999 6:54 AM Re: Sat Chit Ananda >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar > >Tony O'Clery <aoclery > >Namaste, > >Is not Sat Chit Ananda ,Saguna Brahman, considering Ananda, or bliss is >an attribute? > >Tony. > > >Hello Tony. I do not know about Saguna Brahman but there are scholars and >people with great knowledge on the Advaitin list who can help. You might >wish to refer to such works as the Ashtavakra Gita and the Avadhuta Gita or >works of Sri Shankra. Sages like Ramana maharshi have expressed the radical >nondual perspective. It can truly only be grasped through and by one's own >understanding. > >As far as your question goes, the experience of Self is indeed Fullness of >Bliss and Awareness. Sat, Chit, and Ananda are the Same. But the mind, in >expressing the joy of Pure Existence Recognizing and Resting in Its Own >Nature, gravitates towards these kinds of words. Any expression is of >course misleading and conditioned by one's culture. We use Sat- Chit- Ananda >to approximate That which is both Fullness and Emptiness. When Time and >Space have been swallowed up, what can really be said, and by who. Here is a >verse from one of my poems > >Such beauty I have never seen >In oceans mountains or the sky >Or the cosmic bird that likes to fly >Across the billion galaxies > >Harsha >_______ > > >------ >Ideas on how we can improve ONElist? > >Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 1999 Report Share Posted March 25, 1999 Gummuluru Murthy [gmurthy] Thursday, March 25, 1999 11:37 AM advaitin Cc: ; NondualitySalon ; 'satsang' Re: Sat Chit Ananda Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy namaste. Just a small correction. As per my understanding: Sat, chit, Ananda *are* nirguNa Brahman. Sat, chit, Ananda are not attributes, but they are (nirguNa) Brahman itself. NirguNa Brahman is that formless, undescribable entity, which our Consciousness is. For saguNa Brahman, sat, chit, Ananda and all other good qualities are considered arributes. Regards Gummuluru Murthy ------ Harsha: Thank you Murthyji for your explanation. For those who do not know, Murthyji is a regular contributor to the Advaitin list (devoted to discussions on Advaita Vedanta as taught by Sri Shankra). It is a list of very knowledgeable and experienced people and anyone with interest in that area will find it most rewarding listening to the discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 1999 Report Share Posted March 25, 1999 Dear Aikya, At 08:49 AM 3/25/99 -0800, you wrote: >Bliss is also some kind of psychosomatic condition which can be brought on >with drugs. So Ananda is not referring to that kind of bliss. It is >referring to a firm tranquil resting in the adequacy of the Self. Even "tranquil" can be described as an "emotion" or "feeling," however. Also a feeling or knowing of "adequacy" is in the mind, not of the Soul. Seems to me that Sat Chit Ananda can "filter down" to the subtle and gross bodies, and produce a real feeling of Bliss/Tranquility/Adequacy. But a strong caution should be noted here. This feeling of bliss should NEVER be sought as an end in itself, as if taking heroin (it will never appear at all, in that case). Also, mistaking the feeling of bliss for the Reality would be an extremely foolish thing to do. It is a "side effect" of Sat-Chit-Ananda, just as euphoria can be a "side effect" of painkillers. Just food for thought, Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 1999 Report Share Posted March 25, 1999 Dear Aikya, At 08:49 AM 3/25/99 -0800, you wrote: >Bliss is also some kind of psychosomatic condition which can be brought on >with drugs. So Ananda is not referring to that kind of bliss. It is >referring to a firm tranquil resting in the adequacy of the Self. Even "tranquil" can be described as an "emotion" or "feeling," however. Also a feeling or knowing of "adequacy" is in the mind, not of the Soul. Seems to me that Sat Chit Ananda can "filter down" to the subtle and gross bodies, and produce a real feeling of Bliss/Tranquility/Adequacy. But a strong caution should be noted here. This feeling of bliss should NEVER be sought as an end in itself, as if taking heroin (it will never appear at all, in that case). Also, mistaking the feeling of bliss for the Reality would be an extremely foolish thing to do. It is a "side effect" of Sat-Chit-Ananda, just as euphoria can be a "side effect" of painkillers. Just food for thought, Tim ----- The CORE of Reality awaits you at: http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html - Poetry, Writings, Live Chat on spiritual topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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