Ishvara, Jagat & Jiva

[Guest guest]

Namaste

 

I would be grateful if the learned list members could enlighten me the

relation between Ishvara, Jagat & Jiva. Thanks a million. Regards.

 

Om Shanti

Kathi

>

> Raju100 [sMTP:Raju100]

> Wednesday, April 21, 1999 9:02 AM

> advaitin

> Rasabha

>

> Raju100

>

> Dear Sri Ram Chandra

> My humble salutation to you and all, Lord Rasabha's story from Srimad

> Bhagbatam has always been very dear to me. For my own practice. I was

> reading

> & copying in my computer from "The concise Srimad Bhagvatam" of Swami

> Venkatesananda.

> I am hesitant to sent it to the list, as there is nothing of mine yet, I

> would be most encouraged to see if it will be posted .

> Namaste .

> Raju K. Chhatry

> http://www.serenitywalks.com

> *********

> "O supreme being, how can we sing thy effable gloriesw ? It is only

> because

> the wise ones

> realised the inadequacy of language and humab inteligence that they

> commanded

> us to

> worship you with the single word 'NAMAH'. O Lord, you are easily pleased

> with

> any

> prayer said by your devotee in a voice faltering with love, offering at

> the

> same time just

> water, basil leaves and sprouts of durva grass. You are the very goal and

> embodiment of

> the highest aspirations of the human being; and yet we worship you for

> small

> selfish ends.

> Surely you have appeared to us today to teach us this lesson: that you are

>

> ever intent on

> showering your redeeming grace on all, even if you have not been aproached

>

> properly and

> unselfishly. You have nothing to gain from our worship and glorification.

> Yet, you appear

> in our midst as if you are eager to be glorified, though in fact you

> confer

> on us the

> supreme blessing of thus contemplating your glories.

> To sing your glories incessantly is our only duty. Therefore we humbly

> pray

> that while

> stumbling, sneezing, falling down and yawning, when we are in distress and

> so

> on, and

> even while suffering from fever and on our death-bed, when we are likely

> to

> be helpless

> and powerless to remember you, your sin-destroying and soul-redeeming name

> amy

> appear on our tongue. .......Rasabha,Ch.3. Srimad Bhagbatam

>

>

> Lord Rasabha was a wise statesman and an ideal householder who,

> through his

> own example, taught the people the long-forgotten dharma. Druing his reign

>

> there was no

> unrighteousness in his kingdom; no-one even thought of covetting

> others'property. All the

> people vied with one another in their love and devotion to lord Rasabha.

> On

> one occasion,

> he addressed his own sons as follows;

>

> Lord Rasabha said: This humab birth should not be wasted on sensual

> pleasures, but

> utilised in austerities for the realisation of the absolute. The service

> of

> the great ones is the

> door to liberation, whereas the company of the sensuous is the gate to

> hell.

> The great ones

> are calm, free from anger, compassionate and pious, with their hearts

> totally

> dedicated to

> me. they have no selfish interest in the world and they maintain their

> bodies

> for my sake

> alone. Selfish and sensuous action binds the jiva, who wallows in

> ignorace.

> In ignorance

> mab regards his body as himself, and wife , house etc., as his. When this

> conditioning of

> the mind is removed the truth about these dawns in him . Freed from the

> ego

> and the

> consequent bondage, he reaches the supreme. By the adoration of the Lord,

> by

> the

> perception of the truth that all life is tormented by sorrow, by the

> cultivation of virtues and

> the firm restraint of the mind and the senses, and above all, by constant

> vigilance, one

> should cut the knot of the ego. Thus the storehouse of karma is destroyed.

>

> Thenceforth

> one should desist from even such endeavour.

> The froemost duty of a king, a father or a guru is to communicate

> this wisdom to

> those in his charge, without imposing it upon them and without rebuking

> them

> if they are

> not mature enough to understand the message and to act upon it. One who

> does

> not thus

> endeavor to save the other from birth and death is neither a guru kith and

>

> kin, father,

> mother, deity nor husband.

> With a pure mind look upon all animate and inanimate beings as my

> abodes: this is

> the best way in which you can worship me. Serve the eldest amongst

> you-Bharata-who is

> a great and noble soul.

> Sage Suka continued: Having thus instructed his sons and, through them,

> all

> his subjects,

> Rsabha abandoned the householder's life, and roamed the land incognito and

>

> naked, like

> one possessed by a spirit, or demented. The reactions of the people were

> varied. His fine

> figure attracted the attention of the women, but his uncouth appearance

> repelled maby.

> His peculiar behaviour throughly veiled his spiritual glory, and the

> people

> behaved

> contemptuously towards him, subjecting him to every sort of indignity.

> Yet,

> he remained

> unmoved, for he saw that all the indignity was directed towards the body

> which was not

> the self. Firmly established in the self, Rsabha adopted the mode of life

> of

> a bull, a deer, a

> crow and a python in succession. He exemplified the different states of an

>

> advanced yogi.

> He lived in constant oneness with lord Vasudeva and therefore did not even

>

> take notice of

> supernatural powers that sought him.

>

> King pariksit asked: Rsabha was established in the self and the seeds of

> karma had been

> completely burnt in him. Why did he then renounce the world and wander

> about

> as if mad

> or possessed by a demon ?

> Sage Suka replied: Indeed, lord Rsabha had freed himself from all bondage.

>

> But, wise men

> do not relax their vigilance lest amoment's heedlessness should lead to a

>

> great downfall.

> The wise say that one should never trust one's mind , which can be

> deceptively quiet,

> treacherously waiting for an opportune moment to lead one astray. Indeed,

>

> even so have

> the austerities of maby great ones been disrupted. Just as an unfaithful

> wife

> does not

> hesitate to allow her paramour to enter the house and murder her husband,

> the

> wicked and

> fickle mind of a non-vigilant mab allows lust, anger and other evils to

> enter

> and destroy

> spiritual knowledge and wisdom. ....... ....... .........

> He who listens to or recites this story of lord Rsabhadeva develops great

> devotion to the

> Lord.

>

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[Guest guest]

namaste. It is nice to be back on the List again.

 

On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, K Kathirasan ADM NCS wrote:

> K Kathirasan ADM NCS <kathirasan

>

> Namaste

>

> I would be grateful if the learned list members could enlighten me the

> relation between Ishvara, Jagat & Jiva. Thanks a million. Regards.

>

> Om Shanti

> Kathi

>

 

Here is my understanding of this question.

 

Ishwara, jagat, jeeva are all in the vyavahArika realm. They are all

superimpositions in our state of ignorance on the only reality, the

substratum Brahman, the I-Consciousness, Atman. (Superimposition is

itself a result of ignorance, as I will try to show in a latter post).

 

However, in the vyavahArika, they (Ishwara, jagat, jeeva) have a

role to play.

 

The jeeva is the embodiment, the unreal-I, that gives itself the

individuality which it never has.

 

Jagat is the whole universe the jeeva sees, hears, feels and infers

in a false dualistic sense.

 

Ishwara is the creator or the originator of this false dualistic jagat.

As long as we see this false dualistic jagat apart from the Consciousness,

we need Ishwara, the creator.

 

If we visualize the creation, we need the creator. [That does not mean,

if we do not visualize creation, we do not need Ishwara]. Ishwara is as

real as the jeeva and the jagat. If we see jeeva and the jagat, there is

Ishwara enveloping all (IshAvAsyamidam sarvam - IshA upanishhad 1).

We need Ishwara's grace for our individuality to die. If we think we

have individuality, we need Ishwara to de-emphasize that individuality.

 

Sometime ago, I posted in this (or the advaita-L) list the following

(paraphrased) and I still to that understanding.

 

jeeva real, Ishwara unreal - a mUDha concept

jeeva real, Ishwara real - dvaita concept

jeeva unreal, Ishwara real - a concept where we see ourselves as

roles in a drama enacted by Ishwara

(this concept leads to advaita)

jeeva unreal, Ishwara unreal - the ultimate advaita where it is

no longer a concept.

 

 

I am sure other learned members have a much clearer understanding.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

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