Guest guest Posted May 10, 1999 Report Share Posted May 10, 1999 Jerry didn't specify the size of the blank sheet of paper ;-) An infinitely large sheet has no edges. ---------- > "Jerry M. Katz" <umbada > > > would like to start a thead on the definition > > of > > ultimate reality. > > > May I offer that ultimate reality is like a blank sheet of paper. > > Harsha: A blank sheet of paper has edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 1999 Report Share Posted May 11, 1999 >Tim wrote: >One may even compare Ultimate Reality to a flower or a blade of grass or a >bird. After all, maya cannot be separated from Brahman. This is an interesting observation. Here we have the link between science and spirituality. "Maya cannot be separated from Brahman" What we call the external world - the world of matter and energy And what we call the internal world - spiritual world - cannot be separate. "Maya cannot be separated from Brahman" - Sri Ramakrishna used exactly the same words. This is not a trivial statement - in my humble opinion this is the link between Science and Spirituality. jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 1999 Report Share Posted May 11, 1999 Excellent argument! Thank you. > > Tim Gerchmez [sMTP:fewtch] > Tuesday, May 11, 1999 6:28 AM > advaitin > Re: Ultimate reality > > Tim Gerchmez <fewtch > > One may even compare Ultimate Reality to a flower or a blade of grass > or a > bird. After all, maya cannot be separated from Brahman. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 1999 Report Share Posted May 11, 1999 I've enjoyed the fun, smart, dazzling comments on Ultimate Reality. The Avadhuta Gita says over and over and over again: "I am the nectar of Knowledge, homogeneous Existence, like the sky." The refrain is one's confession of nondual realization. It is one description of ultimate reality. The careful reading all 272 verses can slip one into a state of greater nondual realization. You asked why people are silent, Ram. My reason for being mostly silent is that I'm involved in keeping up with my own active email forum on broad-context nondualism. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 11, 1999 Report Share Posted May 11, 1999 Tim Gerchmez [fewtch] Monday, May 10, 1999 11:28 PM advaitin Re: Ultimate reality Tim Gerchmez <fewtch At 05:51 PM 5/10/99 -0400, you wrote: >"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar >Harsha: Perhaps. To say that in Ultimate Reality there are no edges implies >a subject who remains separate from the Ultimate Reality to distinguish >whether edges remain or not. Tim: How so? Would a self-aware piece of paper not be aware whether or not it had edges? Harsha: Perhaps you can ask a self-aware piece of paper as it would be in a position to provide you with the most accurate answer. When we speak of the Ultimate Reality having edges or no edges, we are identifying the Self with the body. This is the fundamental illusion. The Self is Self-Aware. There is nothing apart from it. This is Known through Direct Knowledge and Experience of Being That and not intellectual gymnastics. >H: Sages indicate to us that the Ultimate Reality >cannot be thought of or conceptualized, but It can be Known. It cannot be >known in the way that one knows an object. Tim: Of course this is correct, so if a description is asked for, one description is as good as any other. Many have compared Ultimate Reality (Ground of Being, Brahman) to an infinite sea. Others have compared It to an endless, bright clear light. Jerry's description is as good as any other I have seen. Harsha: Yes. Certainly Jerry's description deserves our respect. My apologies to Jerry if his feelings were hurt. T: One may even compare Ultimate Reality to a flower or a blade of grass or a bird. After all, maya cannot be separated from Brahman. >Ramana Maharshi: The Self is self-luminous without darkness and light, See, even Ramana Maharshi tries to describe the indescribable (before going on to say It cannot be described). The question was asked, "How would one describe ultimate reality?" There are three possible answers: (a) To remain silent and say nothing (b) To say "Ultimate reality cannot be described." © To use some kind of extremely rough approximation of that which cannot be described. Jerry chose the third possibility. Seemed good enough to me. Hari OM, Tim Harsha: Yes. Jerry's description indeed is quite good. Thanks for pointing it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 14, 1999 Report Share Posted May 14, 1999 > >"Jerry M. Katz" <umbada > >I've enjoyed the fun, smart, dazzling comments on Ultimate Reality. > >The Avadhuta Gita says over and over and over again: "I am the nectar of >Knowledge, homogeneous Existence, like the sky." The refrain is one's >confession of nondual realization. It is one description of ultimate >reality. The careful reading all 272 verses can slip one into a state of >greater nondual realization. you are right about that - there is one sloka I like in that shivam na jaanaami katham bhajaami shivam na jaanaami katham vadaami aham shivaschet paramaatma tatvam sama swaruupam gaganopamamcha I donot know Shiva, how can I pray to Him, I donot know Shiva, how can I talk about Him. Beacuse I am that shiva who is the most supreme reality who is equianimou and all pervading. >You asked why people are silent, Ram. My reason for being mostly silent >is that I'm involved in keeping up with my own active email forum on >broad-context nondualism. Jerry, I fail to understand the meaning. You can remain active while remaing silent. In your presence the whole world turns including the e-mails to the adviatin. karmaNi akara yaH pasyet akarmani ca karma YaH| sa buddhimaan manushhyeshhu sa yuktaH kRitsna karmakRit|| One who sees inaction in action and action in inaction he is the real intelligent person and he is the one who is establised in yoga and He is the one who accompliesed what need to be accomplished - says KrishNa. Hence one can act without acting. with greetings. Hari Om! Sadananda > >Jerry > >------ >Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." >http://www.ONElist.com >See homepage for details. >------ >Discussion of the True Meaning of Sankara's Advaita Vedanta Philosophy >focusing on non-duality between mind and matter. List Archives available >at: /viewarchive.cgi?listname=advaitin > > _____________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 > >umbada (Jerry M. Katz) >Question: Aren't there different >qualities of silence and inaction, and if there are, is it not possible >that, relatively speaking, they may come to be viewed as action? What is >Absolute Inaction or Silence? > >Jerry > Hari Om and Greetings from the hot and humid part of the world - which makes you realize that you are indeed above the cold and heat! As I understand - there cannot be differt qualities in the absolute dynamic silence. In tamas also there is silent - when one is stoned and behaves like a stone. But her we are talking about the absolute silence where consciousness shines in all its glory - JyotiH jyotiH - from which all thoughts raise, sustained and go back - the very substratum for the world of plurality. When one identifies oneself with that silecne as I am that silence, one can also declare that I pervade everthing and I am in everything and everthing in me, yet the actions and reactions do not belong to me. Krishna says in B.G. prakRiti eva ca karmaaNi kriyamaaNaani sarvashhaH| yaH pasyati tadaatmaanam akarthaaram sa pasyati|| All actions (without exceptions) are done by PrakRiti. whoever sees himself to be non-actor in all actions he alone sees (the Truth) Shankara says: akarthaaham abhoktaaham aham evaahamavyayaH| I am neither doer nor enjoyer, I am one who immutable| Hence the previous slokas - one who sees inaction in action - that is one who in the dynamic actions of the prakriti - including his body, mind and intellect - sees himself as a dynamic witness with no agency of action, and one who sees action in inaction - as Krishna says - maayaadhyakshena prakRitiH suuyate sa charaa charam | under my presidentship the prakRiti projects the world of movable and immovables - Thus without the president nothing can be done - yet president himslef does not do anything - that is what I think is the action in inaction and inaction in action - whoever sees that he alone is the yogi. Hari Om! Sadananda _____________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 15, 1999 Report Share Posted May 15, 1999 Fri, 14 May 1999 08:28:41 PDT "Kuntimaddi Sadananda" <k_sadananda Re: Ultimate reality > >"Jerry M. Katz" <umbada > >I've enjoyed the fun, smart, dazzling comments on Ultimate Reality. > >The Avadhuta Gita says over and over and over again: "I am the nectar of >Knowledge, homogeneous Existence, like the sky." The refrain is one's >confession of nondual realization. It is one description of ultimate >reality. The careful reading all 272 verses can slip one into a state of >greater nondual realization. #you are right about that - there is one sloka I like in that # shivam na jaanaami katham bhajaami # shivam na jaanaami katham vadaami # aham shivaschet paramaatma tatvam # sama swaruupam gaganopamamcha #I do not know Shiva, how can I pray to Him, I do not know Shiva, how #can I talk about Him. Beacuse I am that shiva who is the most supreme #reality who is equianimou and all pervading. >You asked why people are silent, Ram. My reason for being mostly silent >is that I'm involved in keeping up with my own active email forum on >broad-context nondualism. #Jerry, I fail to understand the meaning. You can remain active while #remaing silent. In your presence the whole world turns including the #e-mails to the adviatin. Hello, Sadananda: Of course what I meant is that I'm not clicking so much on the keyboard! I save most of my clicking for my own email list, which I may as well plug at this point: The Nonduality Salon: <//nondualitysalon> #karmaNi akara yaH pasyet akarmani ca karma YaH| #sa buddhimaan manushhyeshhu sa yuktaH kRitsna karmakRit|| #One who sees inaction in action and action in inaction #he is the real intelligent person and he is the one who is establised #in yoga and He is the one who accompliesed what need to be accomplished - says KrishNa. #Hence one can act without acting. Thank you for these perfect verses. Question: Aren't there different qualities of silence and inaction, and if there are, is it not possible that, relatively speaking, they may come to be viewed as action? What is Absolute Inaction or Silence? Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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