manomaya and vijnAnamaya koshAs - belief and faith

[Guest guest]

namaste.

 

While we are discussing the TaittirIya upanishad, I thought I would

bring in two other concepts - belief and faith - and where they fit

in in these five sheaths covering the Atman and constituting the jeeva.

 

Belief is at the stage of manomayakosha. Manas is the faculty of

perception. At the stage of manas, we accept authority which is

external. At this stage, vedas, gItA, scriptures are our guide.

We *believe* in things.

 

Faith is at the stage of vijnAnamayakosha (level of intellect). At

this stage, internal growth is effected. At this stage, we develop

faith, order, truthfulness and union with Brahman. We look for proofs.

We have "faith" in things.

 

Thus belief and faith belong to two levels of understanding of

ourselves. When we rise beyond vijnAnamaya (i.e. beyond faith),

truths are not inferred anymore but become self-evident. The value of

reason diminishes and truths cannot be invalidated by reason anymore.

 

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

namastE Murtygaru,

 

I feel that belief and faith both belong to the vignAnamaya kOSa. Your

corrections are greatly appreciated.

 

how can we believe through mind? "saMSayAtmikA manaH" - It always

doubts. Lack of understanding only make us doubt.

 

I feel that, we believe in some thing which is told by our elders. The

data is collected through mind and given to the intellect. Intellect

decides to believe... but keeps the doors open for more data! When the

data arrives, which can prove our belief, the intellect turns it as

faith and shuts the door for any further data.

 

a) I believe that non-duality is there, because I have been told so, by

my elders and vedas. -> jnAnaM makes the belief. jnAnam is a capability

of intellect. We sustain our belief .

 

b) Having realized the non-duality through meditation and sadhana. My

intellect said "sOhamasmi". Here the belief turned as faith. ->

vignAnaM makes the faith. Again it is a part of vignAnamaya kOSa.

 

Earnest Regards, Madhava

>

> Gummuluru Murthy [sMTP:gmurthy]

> Wednesday, May 12, 1999 7:17 PM

> advaitin

> manomaya and vijnAnamaya koshAs - belief and

> faith

>

> Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy

>

>

> namaste.

>

> While we are discussing the TaittirIya upanishad, I thought I would

> bring in two other concepts - belief and faith - and where they fit

> in in these five sheaths covering the Atman and constituting the

> jeeva.

>

> Belief is at the stage of manomayakosha. Manas is the faculty of

> perception. At the stage of manas, we accept authority which is

> external. At this stage, vedas, gItA, scriptures are our guide.

> We *believe* in things.

>

> Faith is at the stage of vijnAnamayakosha (level of intellect). At

> this stage, internal growth is effected. At this stage, we develop

> faith, order, truthfulness and union with Brahman. We look for proofs.

> We have "faith" in things.

>

> Thus belief and faith belong to two levels of understanding of

> ourselves. When we rise beyond vijnAnamaya (i.e. beyond faith),

> truths are not inferred anymore but become self-evident. The value of

> reason diminishes and truths cannot be invalidated by reason anymore.

>

>

> Regards

> Gummuluru Murthy

> ----

> --

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

On Wed, 12 May 1999, Madhava K. Turumella wrote:

> "Madhava K. Turumella" <madhava

>

> namastE Murtygaru,

>

> I feel that belief and faith both belong to the vignAnamaya kOSa. Your

> corrections are greatly appreciated.

>

> how can we believe through mind? "saMSayAtmikA manaH" - It always

> doubts. Lack of understanding only make us doubt.

>

> [...]

> Earnest Regards, Madhava

>

 

namaste.

 

You may well be correct that both belong to vijnAnamaykosha. The reason

for my post is to show that belief is at a lesser level of understanding

ourselves than faith.

 

Yes, mind is a doubtful character. Mind deliberates. Buddhi decides.

mano vimarsha-rUpam syAd buddhih syAn nishcayAtmikA

 

Manas deals with the objects perceived; buddhi (vijnAna) deals with

the concepts. As we progress further, the distinction between manas

and buddhi vanishes. Both are antahkaraNa.

 

At the stage of belief, we need external proofs for validation and

conversion into faith. At the stage of faith, we need internal

substantiation only for it to become jnAnam. Faith cannot turn into

a belief unless there is a shattering experience, whereas belief

naturally turns into faith.

 

Manomaya and vijnAnamaya both constitute the subtle body and the

boundary between the two is entirely personal. Personally, I put

both of them as antahkaraNa, with gradation in subtlity.

 

Regards

Gummuluru Murthy

------

[Guest guest]

Greetings Murthygaru:

 

Here is a summary of English Dictionary Interpretation of Belief &

Faith. I leave the rest to readers to make up their mind, belive or

have faith!

 

Hari Om!

 

Ram Chandran

 

==================================================

 

Synonymous Words and their Meaning.

 

Trust, Faith, Belief, Confidence, Reliance, Dependence.

These nouns denote a feeling of certainty that a person or thing will

not fail. The central meaning of belief and faith can be summarized by

the statement, "mental acceptance of the truth, actuality, or validity

of something"

 

Trust implies depth and assurance of feeling that is often based on

inconclusive evidence:

 

Faith connotes unquestioning, often emotionally charged belief. Belief

that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Loyalty to a

person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. The

theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting

acceptance of God's will. The body of dogma of a religion. A set of

principles or beliefs.

 

Belief: The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or

confidence in another. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth,

actuality, or validity of something. Something believed or accepted as

true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a

group of persons

 

Confidence, which suggests less emotional intensity, frequently implies

stronger grounds for assurance:

 

Reliance connotes a confident and trustful commitment to another:

 

Dependence suggests reliance on the help or support of another to whom

one is often subordinate:

 

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English

Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic

version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and

distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States.

All rights reserved.