Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 During Sunday Satsang Discussions (Currently we are discussing Gita, Chapter 8) one of the members in our group asked - What is Ego? The question was further elaborated as follows: Vedanta says that Ego is the barrier for Self Realization. But in real life, don't we need the ego to conduct our personal, family, social and official obligations. How can we conduct our duties without any self-esteem? Does no ego mean not to develop self-esteem, not to have fame and wealth? What is the goal of life and what is the role of ego in daily life? How do we explain the discrepencies if any? I suggest the list members to focus on the following issues in addition to the question related to Ego: (1) What is the distinction between spiritual life and material life? (2) What is the spiritual understanding of Success and happiness? (3) What is the role of a self realized person in a society infected with poverty, sufferings, diseases, calamities, etc.? (4) Should we not direct our attention in removing conflicts, jealousy, anger, hatred, etc. rather than spending our time in learning advaita? (5) what is role of 'realized' saints and sages in removing conflicts, jealousy, anger, hatred, etc. (6) ................................. (other additional issues) I strongly recommend a complete open discussion (without any prejuidice whatsover) with an open mind. Since these issues are diverse, the opinions are likely diverse and consequently, we should show compassion while listening carefully before we jump into our own conclusions. Everyone has the right to disagree with other view points but such disagreements can be expressed fully focused on the subject matter. I invite all of you to participate and contribute your ideas in resolving these issues. Some of you may feel there are no issues, then plese tell us why do you think so? Hari Om! Ram Chandran List Moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 > >Ram Chandran <chandran > >Vedanta says that Ego is the >barrier for Self Realization. But in real life, don't we need the ego >to conduct our personal, family, social and official obligations. How >can we conduct our duties without any self-esteem? Does no ego mean not >to develop self-esteem, not to have fame and wealth? What is the goal >of life and what is the role of ego in daily life? How do we explain the >discrepencies if any? The questions that are asked cover the whole of vedanta. Simple answer is the very questioner who is asking these questions is ego who calims that without him nothing can be done in terms of personal, family, social and official obligations cannot performed without him. That is the ego. He will never know what it would be when he is not there and who will be fulfilling the personal, family, social and official obligations. When one tries to chase him to findout who is ego or what is ego - it is like dog chasing its tail - the one who is chasing the ego is the ego! But that all we have go - Vedanta claims that if the chase is proper, that is if the inqiry is appropriate then the ego. Ego is ahankaara or kartrutwa bhaava or notion that I am the doer. When the action is being performed he was actually not there since the mind is busy with the action. Only he comes and claims that he did it after the action is performed by prakriti - that is mind, intellect etc. Hence he is really a false guy who comes and claims and has not validity for himself other than apprearing to enjoy the fruits of action performed by prakriti. Hari Om! Sadananda _____________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 Hari OM! Excellent questions, let me help get the ball rolling, with comments that are not from the Upanishads, but a line of teaching from my teacher, his teachers's teacher, etc. 1. What is ego? Of all the constituents that make up the body/mind/world, the ego is that subset of constituents that is taken to be ourself. Alternatively, the ego is that concept we have of ourselves. There is really no one whose concept it truly is, but the supposed owner of the concept arises along with-and-within - the concept itself. This makes the ego no different from any other object that arises to the background of Consciousness. Mountains, rivers, car, clothing, thoughts, ego -- all are objects arising to consciousness, and there is nothing that makes any of them more "ours" than any other of the objects. Because our true nature has no features for any of these objects to "stick" to. According to this view, the ego needn't be whittled away or cleansed, rather just seen as an object belonging nowhere in particular. 2. What is the distinction between spiritual life and material life? The distinction is an incentive for us to work, concentrate, etc., in order to try to know our Self, until the mind/intellect get tired and it is realized that there is no distinction between spiritual life and material life. 3. What is the role of a self realized person in a society infected with poverty, sufferings, diseases, calamities, etc.? The role is an incentive for people to set their sights high. During sadhana, while they still believe that there is such a thing as a jnani-in-the-flesh, they have a wonderful role-model. 4. Should we not direct our attention in removing conflicts, jealousy, anger, hatred, etc. rather than spending our time in learning advaita? Three answers: i. Perhaps by learning advaita we ARE removing conflicts, etc. ii. Who says we, as objects arising in consciousness, can direct attention anywhere? iii. One teacher I know has said that until we know who we really are, then any attempt to change the world will be like the blind leading the blind. Realize the out nature first, THEN it will be seen that these things flow perfectly and spontaneously. 5. What is role of 'realized' saints and sages in removing conflicts, jealousy, anger, hatred, etc. What IS such an entity? If consciousness is all there is, then what kind of thing would a realized person be? There really are no persons existing, no enlightened ones, no unenlightened ones. You might say, all there is, is Light. --Greg Greg Goode (e-mail: goode) Computer Support Phone: 4-5723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 > Ram Chandran <chandran > > During Sunday Satsang Discussions (Currently we are discussing Gita, > Chapter 8) one of the members in our group asked - What is Ego? The > question was further elaborated as follows: Vedanta says that Ego is the > barrier for Self Realization. But in real life, don't we need the ego > to conduct our personal, family, social and official obligations. How > can we conduct our duties without any self-esteem? Does no ego mean not > to develop self-esteem, not to have fame and wealth? What is the goal > of life and what is the role of ego in daily life? How do we explain the > discrepencies if any? The dictionary defines ego as: 1. The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves. 2. In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality. I would say that for anyone on a spiritual path, 1. will do. In life, one has to perform certain duties and they can be done without ego (1.). As long as duality exists, there is witness and ego. When performing duties, being the witness isn't a problem. The problem can and eventually will arise when under friends and relatives. What one doesn't realize at such occasions, is that one's conduct, even that towards friends and relatives, is more or less engraved in memory (habit mind). So they won't notice... On a spiritual path, self-esteem, fame and wealth are non-issues. One has duties to perform and when appropriate, the privilege to serve one's relatives and friends. > I suggest the list members to focus on the following issues in addition > to the question related to Ego: > > (1) What is the distinction between spiritual life and material life? If spirituality matters, there shouldn't be a distinction at all - one has one life to live that cannot be divided into parts. > (2) What is the spiritual understanding of Success and happiness? Interpretation of (worldly) success and happiness that comes in the line of duty shouldn't be done at all. Linking (worldly) success and happiness to spiritual progress or its lack would be a serious error. > (3) What is the role of a self realized person in a society infected > with poverty, sufferings, diseases, calamities, etc.? If one person is liberated, it doesn't follow the world gets free. All sufferings etc. in a way are self-inflicted. In the Kali Yuga, there is a large interval between cause and its effect which makes observation difficult if not impossible. > (4) Should we not direct our attention in removing conflicts, jealousy, > anger, hatred, etc. rather than spending our time in learning advaita? Learning is one thing, practicing another. "Ego" or self is both the cause and the receptacle of the "evils of the world". So removing this receptacle oneself and pointing the way to others is the best one can do. > (5) what is role of 'realized' saints and sages in removing conflicts, > jealousy, anger, hatred, etc. [...] The question equals the one "how to prevent the effects of an avalanche once it has formed". A better way is to prevent forming of an avalanche which points to the answer given at 4. Start meditation and yoga classes in schools instead of the systemized stuffing of things that can easily be found when needed. If anyone had learnt anything from the atrocities of W.W.II in the way educationalists are claiming, there wouldn't have been massacres in Tibet, Rwanda, Bosnia and Kosovo, to name but a few. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 >But in real life, don't we need the ego >to conduct our personal, family, social and official obligations. >How can we conduct our duties without any self-esteem? >Does no ego mean not to develop self-esteem, not to have >fame and wealth? It is not uncommon that many among us look outwardly for validation before we can accept ourselves. We look to wealth and fame, social and work status, even our families become the external objects to which we base our self esteem upon. Yet due to the impermanent nature of all things, which change does not reflect the stability or long lastingness for which we yearn, thus we go out looking for more validation. We come to believe that , that which is external can fulfill and satisfy our desires, not knowing that the desire we have, is but the desire to know our true Self, which is non other than the love of our heart. Thus, true self esteem, is not to develop wealth or fame, but accepting that eternal truth which is inherent in the heart. Not your heart, or my heart, but Love's heart (Consciousness). self esteem which is reliant on the exterior for its existence is the self esteem which creates the ego. (ie this is conceit, not self esteem) self esteem which is not reliant on objective reality transcends the ego. It is not a matter of destroying the ego, but of dissolving the self concept into the absolute. This is only possible by the recognition (self realization) that one's true nature (that which is esteemed as Self) is the absolute. Thus, self esteem in its true sense is to accept the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 1999 Report Share Posted May 17, 1999 Quote : from the Siva Sutras Jnanam bandhah Knowing the individual consciousness as one's own nature and NOT knowing the Universal Consciousness as one's own nature, is bondage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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