Harsha/Mice and Men/Scientifically sound and Spiritual Diets

[Guest guest]

>Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

>

>If the main focus of this list is politesse and not Truth, I won't be seen

>here anymore, one way or another. The only thing in life that matters a

>whit to me is Truth, and those who cannot face Truth (or avoid it through

>phony, artificial, plastic politesse and political correctness) are not

>those whom I wish to communicate with. I have released all other

>attachments but that of Realizing Self.

>

>Hari OM,

>

>Tim

 

Tim - greetings.

 

I am not following the thread, but just could not resist sayting that

politeness and truth need not oppose each other. One can tell the truth

politely and there lies ones culture. Truth can hurt if one is attached but

it will be a double hurt if one packages the truth with harsh words.

Everyone of us have weaknesses and by presenting ourselves in polite manner

we are respecting our selves the self in all - don't you agree.

 

Hari Om!

sadananda

 

 

_____________

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[Guest guest]

At 03:27 PM 5/19/99 -0400, you wrote:

>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>Harsha: Thanks for pointing that out Tim. You are of course aware that they

>also teach good manners and common courtesy in elementary school. Your

>calling Linda's statement "moronic" does not reflect an understanding of

>that. You may also wish to read again this list's regulations.

 

All externally-imposed authority and regulation stands in the way of

spiritual growth, as does a brick wall directly in a man's path. Good

manners and common courtesy spring naturally from a sense of Being, not

from some externally imposed source. If politeness is ignored from time to

time in the name of Truth, perhaps the "loss of ego" inherent in perceived

insult is worth whatever Truths might be communicated in an Email exchange.

 

If the main focus of this list is politesse and not Truth, I won't be seen

here anymore, one way or another. The only thing in life that matters a

whit to me is Truth, and those who cannot face Truth (or avoid it through

phony, artificial, plastic politesse and political correctness) are not

those whom I wish to communicate with. I have released all other

attachments but that of Realizing Self.

 

Hari OM,

 

Tim

 

-----

Visit The Core of the WWW at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

 

Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

[Guest guest]

Greetings Tim:

 

I agree with you TRUTH is more important than politness. The goal of

Vedanta is always to find the TRUTH and to reach the stage of

nonduality. However, until we reach the stage of nonduality, we have to

accept that politeness is better than impoliteness. This is not my words

and this comes from Dharma shastras. Please note that Shankara's

Advaitic Philosophy assumes that we shouldn't contradict the Shastras.

According to sAmAnya dharma, Ahimsa is an essential component for a

human being. Ahimsa is an essential component toward the path of

Advaita Philosophy and we should avoid committing physical and/or mental

injury to others. TRUTH has several parts and this is an important and

significant part of TRUTH.

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

Tim Gerchmez wrote:

 

Tim Gerchmez <fewtch

>

> If the main focus of this list is politesse and not Truth, I won't be seen

> here anymore, one way or another. The only thing in life that matters a

> whit to me is Truth, and those who cannot face Truth (or avoid it through

> phony, artificial, plastic politesse and political correctness) are not

> those whom I wish to communicate with. I have released all other

> attachments but that of Realizing Self.

>

> Hari OM,

>

> Tim

[Guest guest]

>>"Harsha (Dr. Harsh K. Luthar)" <hluthar

>

>>Harsha: Thanks for pointing that out Tim. You are of course aware that they

>>also teach good manners and common courtesy in elementary school. Your

>>calling Linda's statement "moronic" does not reflect an understanding of

>>that. You may also wish to read again this list's regulations.

 

Thanks Harsha (and Ram, in a later message)!!

>All externally-imposed authority and regulation stands in the way of

>spiritual growth, as does a brick wall directly in a man's path. Good

>manners and common courtesy spring naturally from a sense of Being, not

>from some externally imposed source. If politeness is ignored from time to

>time in the name of Truth, perhaps the "loss of ego" inherent in perceived

>insult is worth whatever Truths might be communicated in an Email exchange.

 

Tim, I'm not understanding this last sentence too much, but it sounds a bit

like "the ends justify the means." Do you mean to say something like that?

And are you sure it's true?

>If the main focus of this list is politesse and not Truth, I won't be seen

>here anymore, one way or another. The only thing in life that matters a

>whit to me is Truth, and those who cannot face Truth (or avoid it through

>phony, artificial, plastic politesse and political correctness) are not

>those whom I wish to communicate with.

 

Tim, in general, what's wrong with simply apologizing and going on from

there? Something like "I'm sorry if my mail offended, I spoke too

harshly." I've said stuff like that in the past. This advaitin list is

one of the most humble, polite and well-managed lists I've seen in over 13

years on the Internet. There are lots of examples of polite gestures on

this list, and the humility is quite inspiring.

 

> I have released all other attachments but that of Realizing Self.

 

Tim, sooner or later that will go as well. In the meantime, most teachings

stress politeness, kindness and gentleness on the way. There's a Sufi

dictum I like that's relevant here:

 

"Let every word we are about to say pass through 3 gates

before being uttered:

 

1. Is it true?

2. Is it necessary?

3. Is it kind?

 

Hari OM,

 

Greg

>

>Hari OM,

>

>Tim

>

>-----

>Visit The Core of the WWW at:

>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/ND/index.html

>Music, Poetry, Writings on Nondual Spiritual Topics.

>

>Tim's Windows and DOS Shareware/Freeware is at:

>http://www.eskimo.com/~fewtch/shareware.html

>

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Greetings Tim:

>I agree with you TRUTH is more important than politness. The goal of

>Vedanta is always to find the TRUTH and to reach the stage of

>nonduality. However, until we reach the stage of nonduality, we have to

>accept that politeness is better than impoliteness. This is not my words

>and this comes from Dharma shastras. Please note that Shankara's

>Advaitic Philosophy assumes that we shouldn't contradict the Shastras.

>According to sAmAnya dharma, Ahimsa is an essential component for a

>human being. Ahimsa is an essential component toward the path of

>Advaita Philosophy and we should avoid committing physical and/or mental

>injury to others. TRUTH has several parts and this is an important and

>significant part of TRUTH.

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

Hello Ram:

 

The above is a very good point my understanding of Jnana Yoga is that it is

system of sadhanna that leads on to the essential truth of "I am Brahman".

Swami Atamanada in his book The Four Yogas explains that a practicing Jnani

must first hear the teachings, then believe the teachings and lastly

meditate on the teachings. He states "Freedom, something which I had not

till now, is to be gained as a reward of my meditation" . "This is a wrong

background for meditation on Atman." "There is an obstruction to knowing it

or recognizing it as it is, due to my ignorance. Meditation, in every step

of its process is wearing it out. Now Atman is experienced, as it is."

 

Due to these 'obstructions' the sadhaka follows certain mandates Vyasa

emphasizes the importance of posture for meditation as an upright seated

asana and Sankara also tells us to do it sitting in an effortless manner

ie., steadiness or motionlessness.

 

Sankara in his comments of the Guru Gita states "Jnana denotes the final

Insight giving the direct experience. But there are certain mental

qualities favorable to their growth and ripening, which wear out the adverse

conditions. They are the twenty qualities, namely humility, etc. given in

the verses seven to eleven of Gita Chap. XIII, and purity of mind born of

Karma Yoga, the strong will to control the mind, giving up hunger for sense

enjoyment, conquest of anger and greed, love of solitude, minimum food

control over body, speech and mind, and zest for meditation at all times.

(Gita XVIII. 51-55).

 

"In short, absolute and meticulous observance of moral excellences in our

conduct in the world and detachment even while in it, help to wear out our

ignorance, the obstacle of Knowledge."

 

In comparing Jnana Yoga and Patanjali Yoga (Raja) Sankara states: Jnana Yoga

is the intense zeal to keep up a continuous flow of the awareness of the

inner Self. Patanjali states "When the Vrittis of the mind have been

suppressed, the Seer (Atman) dwells in himself". The purpose of both is the

same. Sankara taught that essential self is the same as Brahman he did not

teach that we could come to this realization without effort.

 

As much as one desires short cuts it appears that even the most direct route

of Jnana Yoga still requires the inclusion of the disciplines necessary to

mastering the mind before one can realize the self. Perhaps for so-called

modern mankind the biggest obstacle is in accepting that while we can

instantly, through technology attain the words of the scriptures, actually

achieving the goal requires time, discipline and structure.

 

Namaste,

Linda